Revelations from Patch 6.3: Gods Revel, Lands Tremble

Finished 6.3 MSQ and as a Zenos fan, I'm (still) salty.

The only thing I liked in 6.3 MSQ was meeting Alisaie again. Other than that, I don't care about the characters and I'm tired of the writers constantly sh!tting on Zenos. "He is dead and we're all better for it" - No, I'm not! I'm actually worse. I miss him and I hate that I'm not allowed to tell my real opinion through my WoL. I wasn't even allowed to say that YES, Zenos was my FRIEND when Zero asked in 6.2. I hate that I'm just forced to nod at everything. I don't agree with any of this! I get it, Zenos is dead. THEN LET IT GO! Just leave him alone, please... I still love the game because of the fights and other content but my excitement for the MSQ ended with Endwalker (title checks out).

I think the tremble part was the earthquake Rubicante causes when he destroyed the void gate. As when we were looking for a way up the npcs we talk to at the quarry said that with the recent activity in the area even the safest passage was kinda iffy. Course they could have put the tremble part in the 6.35 stuff.

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Originally Posted by stenovrain

Does that mean that only Eorzean on the planet believe in "real" gods but people from other cultures are pagans?

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Okay. Full stop. This is 100% not how polytheism works. Polytheistic cultures generally see all gods as "real," even the gods of other pantheons. In real-world history, at least, it was not uncommon for a household to worship deities across multiple pantheons. I see absolutely no reason for this to not be the case on Etheirys as well. At least, aside from Gaius's whole shtick in ARR we don't see too much in the way of "but your gods are fake," despite the truths we uncover as players.

The (real-world again) idea of a "true" god originated in Judaic mysticism and philosophy and forms the core of monotheism, which is a rejection of all gods but one. (And it was really unpopular with basically everyone until zealots seized power and forced it on everyone, which is a story for another forum.) This is not the same as, say, the Temple of Ishgard, where they solely worship Halone but acknowledge Her place among a pantheon of Twelve. I don't think that kind of exclusionary worship even exists in XIV's setting.

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Originally Posted by stenovrain

The Myths of the Realm bugs me more than a little because my character is a Raen, which means that she comes from another culture with a different religious belief.

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So with the above in mind, the patron you chose in character creation is simply your chosen patron from among the Twelve, and does not preclude any other religious attachments you may have. it also doesn't mean your gods aren't as real (however we define that), just that we (the players) haven't had the chance to meet them.

Right now it's looking like the Twelve aren't really any more "real" than Garuda, as they seem to be responsible for just as much (meaning basically nothing). More generously, I think the point in all of FFXIV's religious musings has always been that faith has power and validity regardless of its origins, which has only gained more weight with this current storyline.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

Anyway, taking this back to the gods, the reveal of them being what they are also makes their regional specificity even more peculiar in universe. Like, why would you root the beings you created to keep the world stable and inspire hope in mankind around just a single continent? Or hell, a single shard?

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Rooting them to the Source makes sense in that only the Source will be left standing after each Calamity, it's going to be the one place in need of fixing up the most. As for why in Mor Dhona specifically, that ties back into the place being...special for some reason. The gods are stationed there, Midgardsormr agreed to protect the area, the Crystal Tower (which allows world hopping in a sense) is there...there is still something about that place that is incredibly special and needs protecting, and we still don't know what it is. And that is something I hope the last part of the Alliance Raid answers. Is the "anchor" point for the Source and all the shards? Is it where the original Sundering occurred and thus where the connection between the Source and all the shards is at its strongest? Or is there still one final relic from the Ancient times hidden there that no mortal should ever be able to get their hands on?

@RyuDragnier:

Until we get a answer ingame my headcanon is, that this is the place where the star got sundered and where the twelves were created. After all the ruins of Amaurot where in the sea of Kholusia and that would be part of Eorzea on the source. And since only Amaurot was left at the end the fight was probably done somewhere near it. For me, Mor Dhona makes sense as the battleground.

Of course that all could change when we get the real confirmation ingame.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Right now it's looking like the Twelve aren't really any more "real" than Garuda, as they seem to be responsible for just as much (meaning basically nothing). More generously, I think the point in all of FFXIV's religious musings has always been that faith has power and validity regardless of its origins, which has only gained more weight with this current storyline.

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Their assigned duties on the epigraph are really not giving off a "basically nothing" vibe to me, and more of a "The world would've been dead without their intervention" one.

Only thing I've got to contribute to the 'Eorzea is overly important' bit is that the rough area that would become Eorzea is, stated in the FF14 lore books that got reprinted recently, in the distant past where Hydaelyn and Zodiark had their fight and she J-Kicked him into the atmosphere.

I'm not sure how this results in More Donners being more important than anywhere else, but it could be Venat's ambient sue traits infecting the land.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Their assigned duties on the epigraph are really not giving off a "basically nothing" vibe to me, and more of a "The world would've been dead without their intervention" one.

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I'm not sure I'd go with 'the world would be dead', but I am pretty damn certain I don't want to find out what happens if they're not there.


EDIT: But I do genuinely want to underline: Yes, there is absolutely a very concrete and established difference in legitimacy between the Twelve and, say, Garuda, and I think it's really important to acknowledge it. Because Garuda is borne of misconception; the entire origin story of Garuda is that she was an Allagan general that the Ixal misremember and misinterpret over the generations. Garuda, as the Ixal describe and envision her, does not exist and did not exist. And while that doesn't delegitimize the Ixal's beliefs and faith as a societal element (we still genuinely want them to find their Ayatlan), it is the truth: Garuda's not real, they're praying to a nonexistent entity. The same is true for most every other faith depicted in the game; Ifrit's not real, Leviathan's not real, Lakshmi's not real, but that doesn't delegitimize the people who base their faith around them and what meaning they glean from them.

Except with the Twelve, because they confirmably exist. There's more going on that we assumed, but by and large, the people worshipping Halone are factually correct. Halone's up there, looks like that, acts like that, has that power over that domain, (generally) approves of them and loves them. And that means a lot of that sympathy around those faiths is ringing hollow to me, because it starts sounding patronizing. 'The Ixal are free to follow their fake god that's not real, and those who worship the Twelve are free to follow the verifiably existant and real gods that they have completely accurate.'

Going by the general "we're just sort of here and don't do anything" vibe they've been giving off, I'm operating on the assumption that their assigned duties aren't entirely literal. I don't think they're holding anything together or willing anything particular into being, at any rate.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I'm not sure I'd go with 'the world would be dead', but I am pretty damn certain I don't want to find out what happens if they're not there.


EDIT: But I do genuinely want to underline: Yes, there is absolutely a very concrete and established difference in legitimacy between the Twelve and, say, Garuda, and I think it's really important to acknowledge it. Because Garuda is borne of misconception; the entire origin story of Garuda is that she was an Allagan general that the Ixal misremember and misinterpret over the generations. Garuda, as the Ixal describe and envision her, does not exist and did not exist. And while that doesn't delegitimize the Ixal's beliefs and faith as a societal element (we still genuinely want them to find their Ayatlan), it is the truth: Garuda's not real, they're praying to a nonexistent entity. The same is true for most every other faith depicted in the game; Ifrit's not real, Leviathan's not real, Lakshmi's not real, but that doesn't delegitimize the people who base their faith around them and what meaning they glean from them.

Except with the Twelve, because they confirmably exist. There's more going on that we assumed, but by and large, the people worshipping Halone are factually correct. Halone's up there, looks like that, acts like that, has that power over that domain, (generally) approves of them and loves them. And that means a lot of that sympathy around those faiths is ringing hollow to me, because it starts sounding patronizing. 'The Ixal are free to follow their fake god that's not real, and those who worship the Twelve are free to follow the verifiably existant and real gods that they have completely accurate.'

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I would have to disagree. The Twelve aren't any more or less true gods than primals are. They are deities that are powered through belief of the different myths surrounding them, myths that can be either correct or incorrect. Furthermore, now that we are more privy of their origins, we can safely say that whatever myths there are regarding the origin and birth of the Twelve are more or less false. Lewphon's '' Creation of Eorzea '' is pure fiction, but a myth that might've influenced different traits of the Twelve.

But in this case it's a debate over what one classifies as a true god. I'm on the side that both primal and the Twelve and any deity in all of Source are based on myths, that either makes them all gods or none of them gods.