Revelations from Patch 5.4

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

As for other possible options:

There is no single being—sans perhaps Zodiark—that embodies Darkness as well as the Cloud of Darkness. The literal personification of the flood of darkness, and the void itself, that consumed the Thirteenth reflection.

Nidhogg is less about Darkness than he is about Blood and Fire. He's also not a primal, so there's little reason to go for him over something more fitting. Tsukuyomi's powers are tied to Moonlight, and Tiamat... was never fought, so we have no idea what she's capable of.

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To be honest, the candidate which comes to mind is the Primal responsible for the Calamity of Astral Darkness, namely Bahamut.

Which, based on the SMN 50-60 questline, we didn't even need to fight, but just to be in the vicinity of. Which apparently applies to literally everyone on Eorzea, and implicitly the Source (given the variety of possible backstories for the player character).

Still, I do agree that what we did get is at least handwaved enough that the seams can be ignored.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

To be honest, the candidate which comes to mind is the Primal responsible for the Calamity of Astral Darkness, namely Bahamut.

Which, based on the SMN 50-60 questline, we didn't even need to fight, but just to be in the vicinity of. Which apparently applies to literally everyone on Eorzea, and implicitly the Source (given the variety of possible backstories for the player character).

Still, I do agree that what we did get is at least handwaved enough that the seams can be ignored.

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Thats a possibility but then

in essence they would have had to come up with something completely different with Asahi 's Lunar Bahamut

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Thats a possibility but then

in essence they would have had to come up with something completely different with Asahi 's Lunar Bahamut

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Oh, excellent point. I hadn't considered that. I suppose there are only so many ways you can do that particular enemy type.

More 5.4 speculation

At 1st I thought Lunar Bahamut was just a recreation of him via Fandaniel's creation magic, but seeing how they need to look for Estinien then maybe Lunar Bahamut might have draconic origins after all? We know Allagans (and recently Garleans) have cloning technology, so maybe Fandaniel did something something similar and cloned Bahamut and enhanced him with whatever magic?

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Originally Posted by myahele

More 5.4 speculation

At 1st I thought Lunar Bahamut was just a recreation of him via Fandaniel's creation magic, but seeing how they need to look for Estinien then maybe Lunar Bahamut might have draconic origins after all? We know Allagans (and recently Garleans) have cloning technology, so maybe Fandaniel did something something similar and cloned Bahamut and enhanced him with whatever magic?

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Hmm, perhaps, or maybe...

Lunar Bahamut is a clone made by the Allagans long ago, perhaps from a Lunar base of theirs. Remember, they had the ability to create a giant satellite (Dalamud) and send it far off into space. Them having a moon base wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility. Damned Allagans, continuing to make us speculate years later! *shakes fist*

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Originally Posted by myahele

More 5.4 speculation

At 1st I thought Lunar Bahamut was just a recreation of him via Fandaniel's creation magic, but seeing how they need to look for Estinien then maybe Lunar Bahamut might have draconic origins after all? We know Allagans (and recently Garleans) have cloning technology, so maybe Fandaniel did something something similar and cloned Bahamut and enhanced him with whatever magic?

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Either way,

It's clearly a reference to FF4 (GBA/PSP versions, that is) and Kain's Lunar Trial, in which he had to confront Lunar Bahamut alone.
And since Estinien is pretty much an expy of Kain...

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Hmm, perhaps, or maybe...

Lunar Bahamut is a clone made by the Allagans long ago, perhaps from a Lunar base of theirs. Remember, they had the ability to create a giant satellite (Dalamud) and send it far off into space. Them having a moon base wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility. Damned Allagans, continuing to make us speculate years later! *shakes fist*

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I'm not so sure about that.

Fandaniel did state that Lunar Bahamut was the first of the "beasts".
That, combined with what we've heard about various Amalj'aa going missing leads me to believe that we'll see other Lunar versions of past Primals (such as Lunar Ifrit, for instance).

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Originally Posted by myahele

More 5.4 speculation

At 1st I thought Lunar Bahamut was just a recreation of him via Fandaniel's creation magic, but seeing how they need to look for Estinien then maybe Lunar Bahamut might have draconic origins after all? We know Allagans (and recently Garleans) have cloning technology, so maybe Fandaniel did something something similar and cloned Bahamut and enhanced him with whatever magic?

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I don't think you can read into it that much from what we (and the Scions) know.

They looked at the big dragony thing and said "hey, maybe we should call in the guy who knows how to fight dragons". No guarantee that it is therefore a "real" dragon or not.

In any case, a dragon created by Creation magic isn't any less real than one created as a clone of an existing dragon - though it's unlikely they'd have access to the original Bahamut for cloning anyway.

Bahamut might have been the touchstone of the 7th Calamity which was an "Astral" aspected Calamity... but the Primal himself is a Fire Primal. Specifically solar fire (think solar flares). The dragons associated the non-primal Bahamut with the sun and concept of dawn and when Tiamat summoned him as a primal, she kept the association. The Allagans put Bahamut's association with the sun to good use in Dalamud where he was... essentially an attracter for solar energy that would then be funneled into the Crystal Tower for storage.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Bahamut might have been the touchstone of the 7th Calamity which was an "Astral" aspected Calamity... but the Primal himself is a Fire Primal.

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He's associated with the sun, but does that automatically make him fire-aspected? Has it been stated somewhere?

The lorebook phrases it that "the attack by Bahamut" was all the elements charged astrally. The Calamity is astral-aspected because Bahamut's attack was, and that is because the attack was the Calamity.

It also occurs to me that what seemed to be Azeyma's sun symbol in the Meracydian cathedral was ascribed to being a symbol of Sephirot, who is certainly not fire-aspected.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It also occurs to me that what seemed to be Azeyma's sun symbol in the Meracydian cathedral was ascribed to being a symbol of Sephirot, who is certainly not fire-aspected.

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Can I take a moment to comment on just how weird this is? It's been bugging me ever since I noticed it. Why is a Meracydian Cathedral dedicated to Sephirot filled with reliefs depicting the symbol of Azeyma, an Eorzean goddess?