The toxicity starting to happen.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

No one's role expectation is "read the chat box" nice as that might be. You typing to not pull more can very well be falling on deaf ears, at that point you're literally letting people die just to prove a point. Hence, petty and egotistical.

I really wish people just knew more about this game. If any of you knew what you were talking about you'd not be making these tired arguments because you'd understand you can just tank it its fine but instead because you died one time to a Netflix healer in tam-tara now you've gotta single pull Mt. Gulg.

It is virtually always possible to at minimum double pull. You can have a healbot and single target dps and not only will double pulls work but it you're doing your job as a tank and pushing out your own AoE damage itll still be faster than singles. Instead we need to waste everyone's time for no good reason.

Like I said I hope you try that sort of thing with me some day. I'll heal through it and get a kick going nice and quick after.

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This is an MMO game. Not a single player. You have to communicate with other people sooner or later. And if someone is refusing to look at their chat letting them take some damage is a good way to make them read it.

I don't care if I can tank it or not. What I care about is some simple decency. It's not hard to ask "can you do bigger pulls?". Are your fingers gonna fall off if you ask the tank instead of just going ahead and pulling things or what?

I see you didn't read again what I said. Letting people facetank things for a few seconds =/= killing. I never once said anything about letting anyone die. So I fail to see where this is a waste of time.
You'd be kicking me after not healing me even tho I'm doing my job lol

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Originally Posted by linayar

The tank doesn't set the pace. The weakest link (mostly between tank and healer, though DPS can factor in) sets the pace. If the tank wants to pull big, but the healer doesn't, then the tank should pull small, and likewise if the tank wants to pull small.

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Could not disagree more. Nobody is ever going to improve if they go through life with everybody catering to their inadequacies. The weakest link needs to be pushed to their limit more than anyone else so they can learn how to play properly.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

I don't care if I can tank it or not. What I care about is some simple decency.

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Then do your job instead of acting like a bratty child by refusing to pick up mobs when literally all you have to do is press your AoE buttons, which you should be doing anyway. if the DPS brings the mobs right to you then there is NO excuse whatsoever for not picking them up. None.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Why did the DPS have to be petty and grief? Two wrongs don't make a right but the blame doesn't lay solely on the tank

Edit: Like I said if the pace of a dungeon is so important to people maybe they should play tanks if they don't want to do that try communicating and maybe compromise a bit.

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Did they grief though? Unless their actions actually cause a wipe and slow the dungeon down, then I don't see it as griefing. Letting a player KO just because they did something you don't agree with is being petty, griefing and slowing the dungeon down (especially if the healer threw a heal on them. So now they're on the aggro table).

I've had DPS run ahead of me as a tank and you know what goes through my head? "so long as you don't run off to Narnia, I don't care if you pull stuff. One AoE and they're back on me."

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

This is an MMO game. Not a single player. You have to communicate with other people sooner or later. And if someone is refusing to look at their chat letting them take some damage is a good way to make them read it.

I don't care if I can tank it or not. What I care about is some simple decency. It's not hard to ask "can you do bigger pulls?". Are your fingers gonna fall off if you ask the tank instead of just going ahead and pulling things or what?

I see you didn't read again what I said. Letting people facetank things for a few seconds =/= killing. I never once said anything about letting anyone die. So I fail to see where this is a waste of time.
You'd be kicking me after not healing me even tho I'm doing my job lol

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You very much advocated for letting people die earlier, I just don't care enough to pick through your post history.

If all you're doing is letting them take a few autos that's fine, it's not going to impede the run and honestly if they're a smart physical dps they'll pop arms length and slow those enemies for you too. Yay bonus mitigation.

I shouldn't need to stop dpsing to ask 1/4 of the dungeon to do their job. The whole point is to get through it quickly. If the tank isn't pulling correctly I'll fix it for him, simple as that. If it's a leveling dungeon I'm happy to let them know in chat, especially if they've already proven to be paying attention to chat at all, but I'm not going to be asking permission or anything. That implies 1/4 of the dungeon team gets to decide that sort if thing and that's not true.

If it's a 70+ dungeon, especially 80, nope. Not gonna waste my time in chat. By that point everyone should know what they're doing. Let's get through the thing as quick as we can.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

You very much advocated for letting people die earlier, I just don't care enough to pick through your post history.

I shouldn't need to stop dpsing to ask 1/4 of the dungeon to do their job. The whole point is to get through it quickly. If the tank isn't pulling correctly I'll fix it for him, simple as that. If it's a leveling dungeon I'm happy to let them know in chat, especially if they've already proven to be paying attention to chat at all, but I'm not going to be asking permission or anything. That implies 1/4 of the dungeon team gets to decide that sort if thing and that's not true.

If it's a 70+ dungeon, especially 80, nope. Not gonna waste my time in chat. By that point everyone should know what they're doing. Let's get through the thing as quick as we can.

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No, all I said was "you spank it - you tank it".

"The whole point" is different for everyone. I hate rushing through the dungeons and the whole point for me is to take it slow and enjoy my time. Just because you are in a rush doesn't mean everyone in a group is.
As long as the tank is pulling and tanking - they are pulling correctly. The amount of monsters that you want to be pulled is just your whim and not a universal standard.

Deciding where to go and what to pull is literally the tank's role in the party. This and taking the damage. You're not gonna ditch the tank and go explore some separate dungeon path, you're suppose to follow the tank. Why should people of other roles do the tank's job? Maybe I should stop tanking and start healing then cuz the healer is now a tank, pulling monsters and all.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Then do your job instead of acting like a bratty child by refusing to pick up mobs when literally all you have to do is press your AoE buttons, which you should be doing anyway. if the DPS brings the mobs right to you then there is NO excuse whatsoever for not picking them up. None.

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I'll start doing my job when DPS will stop doing it for me. I don't stop tanking and start healing the team so why should a DPS stop DPSing and start pulling the mobs. It's not hard to respect each other's role in the group and have a bit of communication.



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Honestly, I will never understand people that can just pull things.
How can you have such disrespect for other human beings in your party?

I once accidentally pulled Ozma as a DPS in a roulette before everyone got to their positions. I felt so guilty I apologized in alliance chat and it haunted me for days.
If I ever to pull something on purpose I'd probably feel like an a-hole and show myself out of the dungeon.

It's really baffling for me as to why people can't just be respectful and nice to each other, instead of being the king of the instance and trying to decide everything. And why people can't stop rushing for one minute and just enjoy their time.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

I once accidentally pulled Ozma as a DPS in a roulette before everyone got to their positions. I felt so guilty I apologized in alliance chat and it haunted me for days.

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Okay, now I know you gotta be joking! You had me for awhile there though. Lol!

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Okay, now I know you gotta be joking! You had me for awhile there though. Lol!

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I actually am not. Nobody was angry that I pulled early but I still felt bad.

Which is why I really don't understand how people can pull ahead of the tank.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Could not disagree more. Nobody is ever going to improve if they go through life with everybody catering to their inadequacies. The weakest link needs to be pushed to their limit more than anyone else so they can learn how to play properly.




Then do your job instead of acting like a bratty child by refusing to pick up mobs when literally all you have to do is press your AoE buttons, which you should be doing anyway. if the DPS brings the mobs right to you then there is NO excuse whatsoever for not picking them up. None.

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You're pretty much contradicting yourself here. First you say the weak link needs to be pushed to learn to play properly then you're saying the tank needs to pick up the slack for the weak link that isn't doing their job properly.

DPS should not be pulling mobs unless the tank requests it. Their job is to deal damage to the creatures focused on the tank so the tank is acting as a shield to the rest of the party. The reason for not picking them up is so they learn not to do it. Once they die a few times, maybe they'll get the idea.

If the tank pulls stuff but then fail to generate enmity on those mobs to hold their attention, that becomes the tank's fault.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

The whole point is to get through it quickly.

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No, the point is for the party to clear the dungeon. Considering we're given 90 minutes to complete most instances, getting through fast is not the point. If SE's point was for players to clear dungeons as quickly as possible, they'd cut the timer down to 30 minutes to add the time pressure element.

Toxicity is a part of everyone online game. This one has unfortunately been no different, and seems to fluctuate between better or worse. Either way: I'm sorry you had a bad experience. :(

I've always based my pulls on a combination between my gear and the healer's gear. Biggest majority of the time, that means grabbing literally everything unless a new expansion just came out. Sometimes it means holding back for someone new and/or leveling. If the healer says go big regardless? Well, then I go big, and see what happens, then adjust from there.

On the opposite end, I've always respected what another tank decides to pull, even if they're doing one pack at a time when I think they could possibly handle more. I don't know what kind of day that person has had. I don't know what their skill level is like; what difficulties they may have, if any. Maybe they haven't tanked this dungeon/raid/trial before. There's too many factors, and not a one that justifies being rude and impatient over.

Honestly, as long as people respect each other's time by trying their best, I really don't care about much of anything else. It's just a game at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

Which is why I really don't understand how people can pull ahead of the tank.

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The faster you pull the faster you clear the faster you can do other stuff then kill mindless trash and bosses, like explore the dungeon without fear of enemies, do other content, play another game or just start over again with killing mindless trash and bosses.
You want to reduce the mandatory, tediouse or/and boring stuff to get to the good stuff you actually want to do.