The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

I agree that Tanks are not the boss, but it's not a one-wat street of "just pull" either. People should listen to the Tank too.

Back in Heavensward I decided to level Gladiator/Paladin, as I wanted a change. Rocky start, but I had friends guiding me on how to tank. When I reached 60 I started gearing up slowly. The Antitower just go released that week and I had my tank on the minimum itemlevel to enter, obviously I did so. Queue instapopped and I got in. I said I was new to the dungeons and still new to tanking. The small pulls that I had to do first were okay. First boss went smooth. Now, the hiccups started when the 2nd part of the dungeon came. Because it was my first time in that dungeon, I had no idea what to expect, so I just pulled pack per pack. Both DPSs ran out in front and pulled the rest. I managed to get 'em, but I took way too much damage from everything. This resulted in the Healer getting annoyed with me, told me to "properly" tank, even though I used cooldowns. Second wall-to-wall pull same story. After that I asked them to not pull in advance as 1) I wasn't comfortable with it and 2) I knew my gear sucked as I was minimum ilvl. Second boss down, we continued.

Now, I thought that they'd understand my situation and be fine with it. Boy, was I wrong. They kept pulling everything in front of me. I did take the aggro off 'em. But I died on the spot. The incoming damage was way too high for the Healer to handle. This happened during the last bit of the dungeon as well. In the end, they kicked me just before the final boss.

My point being: If a Tank says "I can't handle x or y pulls" then it might be better to listen to them. This Healer thought he'd be good enough to heal me up, but in reality he couldn't. Simply because my gear wasn't what he expected, probably slightly undergeared too. In the end, this experience has ruined my will to Tank. I still play them every now and then and to level them to the new cap, but that's about it. Easy though tanking may be, it's still all about numbers and if you don't meet the required numbers for a large pull, it'll only cost more time in the end.

Try it, and see if everyone survives.

If you all wipe, and everyone else told you not to do it, I wouldn't necessarily be against using that as report material for disruptive behaviour.
Probably wouldn't care enough to report myself, but at least it's there as a deterrent.

If a tank cant pull wall to wall in dungeon then he should play hello kitty online. MOVE faster grandma!

If the tank is pulling slow, I could care less. I don't pretend that my time is anymore valuable than anybody else's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilyth

I thoroughly disagree with this mentality. Honestly these tanks need to get over themselves. This is coming from a tank.

"I'm the boss, I decide the pace and how many mobs will be pulled". Really? What a selfish, egocentric point a view you have there champ. This is an MMO and you're required to work with a group. No, you are not the boss because you are a tank. If 3/4 in the party decides you should pull more, you are pulling more or you're getting kicked. Respect. your. party members.

We're talking about dungeons, literally the easiest content in the game. One overpower/flash/abyssal drain is enough to snap aggro of any dps who decided to pull one extra mob. So please, stop pretending it's "oh so hard" to grab that mob back because most tanks who let a DPS die are doing so only out of spite or because their delicate "tank pride" got hurt.

Tanks already have one of the easiest jobs in a Dungeon and, on top of that, they also think their decision weighs more than anyone else's just because their icon is blue and they have higher defense status? It honestly surprises me that this is still a thing.

---

If nothing else. At least try. In my experiences, very few people complain if you do a large or even mega pull, die and just type in chat "Sorry! thought I'd try more" or something to that effect. If you can't handle two packs (4-6 mobs), then you shouldn't be in the higher level dungeons at this point. Leveling dungeons can be an exception since that's typically where new tanks are learning but I suspect most people annoyed by slow tanks aren't referring to the new ones.

I can only speak for myself however I'm never angry if a newer tank tries to pull a lot, messes up and admit to in the chat. Hell, I'm more likely to give them a pat on the back or encourage them to try again if it was a miss-click or another easily rectifiable mistake. Why? I don't want them to be afraid to pull again.

As an ex-PLD (ARR-4.1) main & self-declared B-rank Tank (B-rank= "can Tank 24-man & reg 4/8-man easy but have no XP in EX-Primal's or Savage") and to be clear I have this thing were I blame myself for any mistake I am at lest partly to blame (basicly I'll insult myself mentially WAY before anyone else can & probably a fair bit worse then they were gona)

That above said I find its better to be safe then sorry, while I was constantly annoyed with anyone pulling for me & would LOVE to just leave them to die my comitment to a mindset I built while playing PLD drove me to ALWAYS take it from them wether I myself could handle it or not. If we wiped I was always blamed, ungeared or lack of skill be damned (even when I said I was new to the place & I always say when its my 1st time threw a place). I got less insults over time (especially after lv50 as I made gearing my PLD 1st a damn near obsesion, even if with Tome gear only) & in HW my IRL friend became my co-healer which made Tanking damn near boring lol, thank you PSN chat. However the stigma from lving & Coil's early "Drama Wars" kept me from endgame highend stuff and with my IRL friends gone cuppled with my epic selfdoubt I gave up PLD/WHM early into 4.0-4.1

Now with all that boring backstory over with :D I personally as MCH will NEVER EVER intensionally pull anything & will do my best to never take arrgo from the Tank unless I know the mob will die before me, I can miss judge that fact but thats why Kiteing is an option, & my reason is simple "Let everyone else decide/argue the pace" cause I don't care I'm DPS... I'll just try to keep up

As a healer I don't really care how much or how little is pulled at a time, I totally understand if a tank is not comfortable with doing massive pulls. As a dps I would prefer bigger pulls but I never intentionally pull anything on my own because I think it's rude and it's literally the tank's job to do the pulling. If I see impatient dps players intentionally pulling mobs on their own over and over again, I just let them die. If you want to tank so bad, play an actual tank or die.

It's rude to pull when you're not a tank. We know you're intentionally trying to provoke us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Floortank

It's rude to pull when you're not a tank. We know you're intentionally trying to provoke us.

---

People just like to show a little defiance.

If you run ahead of the tank and pull extra, and those extra mobs end up wiping the party, then you DO NOT GET TO BLAME THE TANK FOR IT!

You pulled them, that makes it your fault when they kill everyone, and pinning it on the tank just makes you a donkeys rear end.
The tank may well have predicted that pulling those extra mobs would go badly and therefore elected not to do so in order to avoid a wipe, so when you go running in being all "LEEEEEERROOOOOY JEEEEENKIIIIIINNNNSSSS!!!111!11oneeleven11!" the consequences are on your head, deal with it, do not attempt to offload the responsibility for what happened on those who were trying to prevent that very thing.

This whole "It's the tanks fault that my actions killed us all! I refuse to take responsibility for doing stupid stuff, scapegoating all the way!" thing needs to stop.