Shadowbringer: Summoner Changes Discussion

I'm kind of confused by the changes. Energy Siphon and Dreadwyrm Trance just don't feel like their cooldowns are in sync and they get further out of sync the longer combat goes on for. Am I just supposed to be wasting tons of Aether or something? Right now I'm just not enjoying the class and it was the one I enjoyed most prior to the expansion.

I don't understand the reason for the changes since the rotation is still over 2 minutes long and still very punishing if you die and have to start over.

Also, why is Physick still a spell for Summoner?

Here's my thoughts on the new Summoner.

One, overall I like a lot of changes, such as the changes to Trances, Bane just always being available, EA 1 and 2 feel good. Each change when taken individually feel really good.

The problem is that the sum of the parts are greater than the whole. The class has way, way too many oGCDs to press. It's something like 13-15 per minute. EA accounts for 4 per minute, ED+Festers account for 6 per minute, Trances at 2 per minute (including deathflare) Bahamut accounts for 2 more albeit only every other minute. Tri-disaster is another 1-2 per minute (pending cycle rotation).

Do note that with a standard GCD of 24 per minute, you basically need to throw out a new oGCD for every GCD going out.

This is completely neglecting Bane, which honestly has me going "Why does this exist anymore? Just make Bio/Miasma and Tri-Disaster AoE abilities innately and be done with it." And the ruin 4 change with EA is nice, but I almost miss the random procs as well, especially since you just don't get enough ruin 4s to cast everything. Granted I'm not level 74 yet so I don't get 4 per minute, only 2, but the class still feels very...odd.

Honestly, if I could, I would at this point make Bane convert Tri-Disaster, Bio, and Miasma into AoEs and by extension get rid of Bane, and seriously consider either deleting the Aetherflow mechanic outright, or merging Egi Assault into 1 ability instead of 2 and then messing with the cooldown. The density of oGCDs is just insane on the class, even compared to the old summoner which was already somewhat high.

Also seriously, can Physick be made to actually do something on summoners other than eat up bar space? It's getting ridiculous at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

Something I've been wondering about...will you be able to double weave Egi Assault and Egi Assault II into a single GCD? Could save a lot of headaches if it's possible.

Edit: Ok, apparently you can. And the Ruin IV trait is permanent too, these 2 things are good news.

---

The answer is yes, but if you try to do more than 2 Egi Assaults it will consume a charge and throw it out the window with no damage done, and I think you might want/need to space it by more than 1 GCD between every double weave. Furthermore, if the pet can't get to the enemy fast enough it will also throw out uses of the skill, and it doesn't refund it. It overall feels good to press the button and the pet is somewhat snappy on using it.

I’m happy with SMN so far, It just seems to be put together better now and the pets are reacting and weaving the heck out of their skills. Good job SE but one complaint will be that Bahamut still seems to attack more often if I use OGCDs....haven’t completely tested this yet so maybe someone can do that while I’m offline

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aomine1992

I’m happy with SMN so far, It just seems to be put together better now and the pets are reacting and weaving the heck out of their skills. Good job SE but one complaint will be that Bahamut still seems to attack more often if I use OGCDs....haven’t completely tested this yet so maybe someone can do that while I’m offline

---

I can 100% confirm Bahamut doesn't notice or care about Fester.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taranok

The answer is yes, but if you try to do more than 2 Egi Assaults it will consume a charge and throw it out the window with no damage done, and I think you might want/need to space it by more than 1 GCD between every double weave. Furthermore, if the pet can't get to the enemy fast enough it will also throw out uses of the skill, and it doesn't refund it. It overall feels good to press the button and the pet is somewhat snappy on using it.

---

What do you mean throw it out of the window? If I double weave egi assault and egi assault II I get 2 stacks of Ruin IV always, and my egi performs both attacks, no stack or attack is lost here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

What do you mean throw it out of the window? If I double weave egi assault and egi assault II I get 2 stacks of Ruin IV always, and my egi performs both attacks, no stack or attack is lost here.

---

The pet can only queue 2 actions at once. If you try queuing more, or if for some reason your pet cannot fire off the abilities fast enough, it will "forget" the queue, doing no damage, throw out an error message, and eat the charge of the ability. I'm not 100% certain what causes it but I believe I've caused it to happen both from queuing too many abilities at once as well as from queuing against an enemy who was too far away for Ifrit-egi to hit them, so in the process of them running over it voided the queue.

Go to a dummy, summon ifrit egi, cast egi assault and egi assault II at the same time. Watch how Ifrit Egi performs Crimson Cyclone and Flaming Crush simultaneously along with an autoattack. I don't see where the problem is.

If you know a boss is out of range of Ifrit Egi because it just jumped or teleported somewhere else, it's not that you don't double weave both egi assaults, you just don't use any.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nemekh

We have several pet entities that react to commands we give them. We even gained an additional Demi-Summon per two minute cycle vs Stormblood. Pray tell how we aren't a pet class?

---

They aren't entities, and they don't react to commands we give them. They are just points of origin for our own stuff now.

I play pet classes because I like managing aggro on my pets, and worrying about keeping them alive, and now that's gone, and the class is dead boring as a result. I've switched to a lower level job to try something else, even though I just started playing and had been planning to play Summoner into Shadowbringers.

I will say very briefly. New battle system fucking shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gallus

Go to a dummy, summon ifrit egi, cast egi assault and egi assault II at the same time. Watch how Ifrit Egi performs Crimson Cyclone and Flaming Crush simultaneously along with an autoattack. I don't see where the problem is.

If you know a boss is out of range of Ifrit Egi because it just jumped or teleported somewhere else, it's not that you don't double weave both egi assaults, you just don't use any.

---

I already said they queue 2 deep. It's possible to try queueing more and having it fail and eat the cast. That's my point.