(Spoilers) Ghimlyt difficulty was a step down from the Burn...and that needs to stop

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Yoshi said enmity handling is not only a tanks job, but also DPS that has tools to take it away from himself.
I havent played in HW, but didnt dps had enmity reductions back then?


Btw back to the topic.
I dont like that dungeons are getting easier and less rewarding with each next update. We should have the option to play the dungeons that will be more rewarding and harder, at the raid savage level to bring in more space for gameplay diversity.
Casuals already have X amount of content designed for them, but there are no dungeons for true dungeon lovers which will provide same level of rewards as the savage raids.

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I'm all for harder dungeon content, but how are they any less rewarding now than in the past?

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Yoshi said enmity handling is not only a tanks job, but also DPS that has tools to take it away from himself.

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I once had a case in Swallow's Compass where I tanked the last boss.

As a BLM... With Diversion up... and not even a fire spell yet.

There's "DPS should be helping" and "How in the crap is this possible given the situation"

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

I don't want content to be more difficult. God stop it.
I want the game to have a proper learning curve, and a proper difficulty curve. I't shouldnt be, that a level 70 dungeon is just as simple as a level 30 one, and it shouldn't be that level 70 players cannot be bothered to play their classes properly (is not like we have a massive customization system, we literally have only ONE way to play, the right one) yet they can progress and alter other's performance.

That said, games are meant to be challenging, if not, there is no point of them, you might aswell play facebook pet games or something, that barely pass as videogames anyway.

Then they shouldn't be doing this content, either they learn, improve, "git gud" or drop it, or dedicate to the plenty of other alternatives and hold the storyline for a while, options there are.
When did gaming became such a cattering to people that cannot be bothered to learn how to play, is basically asking for the game to be whatever.

Might aswell explain why we only get half-assed content all the time, SE has no idea of what to do since it has to pretend to design a game for so many, and is abandoning basic game design principles: Games have rules, you learn them and progress. Not the other way arround.

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At the end of the day, casuals pay the bills. And when it comes to mandatory content, don't forget that Titan Hard mode must be done twice in the story. It's a reasonable difficultly IMO for the most part.

If you want more challenging content, I'll repeat what others have said and say that Extreme Trials, Savage Raids, and maybe even Ultimate is right up your alley.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I've been in parties that have had multiple wipes in Ghimlyt Dark, and one abandoned...

One point to make is that towards the end of an expansion cycle, top gear progression far outpaces minimum gear progression.
This dungeon is what, Minimum ilvl 360 or something? Which means you have to balance it around that for players who have only just reached level 70, while up to date players will be ilvl 380+.

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I actually left a party in the first week because my party members couldn't stay alive in the first boss. Apparently its spinning around and slamming the ground was too much for them..

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Originally Posted by splinter1545

My first group even 3 man'd the 2nd boss after the healer died midway through, and we didn't even struggle.

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The 2nd boss is incredibly easy. Multiple times I've had my healer and both DPS die on me while tanking as PLD and each time I've solo'd it with no trouble. If you have a reliable self-heal and are capable of seeing the big red circle on the wall when he's about to storm through at you, then you almost can't lose to that boss.

I don't think any level cap dng is hard, just annoying.
I mean, what do I get from it? Trash mobs are not rewarding to kill as I'm max level and the EXP goes to waste. Most dngs lock you in an area until you'll killed all the things. The only real reason to run them is to get tomes and gear drops.

So the only thing I get from them is some sense of entertainment by the setting which this givesin better than most.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

At the end of the day, casuals pay the bills. And when it comes to mandatory content, don't forget that Titan Hard mode must be done twice in the story. It's a reasonable difficultly IMO for the most part.

If you want more challenging content, I'll repeat what others have said and say that Extreme Trials, Savage Raids, and maybe even Ultimate is right up your alley.

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The thing is, the game shouldn't be split between the mostly easy dungeons (save for a few exceptions) and the endgame raids. There is a rather big jump between the two with absolutely nothing in the middle. I feel like the devs should not be afraid in making some actual, true midcore dungeons. They've already stated that as far as MSQ goes, Shinryu is going to be the absolute hardest that they were going to make a story trial. Which is fine and all, but that leaves the rest of the dungeons that are fairly easy to do, unless the players in the party are woefully unprepared, or are not able to handle it.

There is room for a middle ground between the two (and that doesn't mean giving more trash mobs - actually, we'd need less trash mobs and more rewarding experiences).

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

The thing is, the game shouldn't be split between the mostly easy dungeons (save for a few exceptions) and the endgame raids. There is a rather big jump between the two with absolutely nothing in the middle. I feel like the devs should not be afraid in making some actual, true midcore dungeons. They've already stated that as far as MSQ goes, Shinryu is going to be the absolute hardest that they were going to make a story trial. Which is fine and all, but that leaves the rest of the dungeons that are fairly easy to do, unless the players in the party are woefully unprepared, or are not able to handle it.

There is room for a middle ground between the two (and that doesn't mean giving more trash mobs - actually, we'd need less trash mobs and more rewarding experiences).

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I remember the time back in 2.1 when Pharos Sirius was the hardest of the level 50 dungeons. Because people we're so bad at it, they ended up doing Wanderer's Palace and Haukke Manor (Hard) more often because they were easier to complete for similar rewards. One's mileage may vary for Copperbell Mines (Hard) and Amdapor Keep pre-nerf.

In the end, the reward has to match the effort the players put in. If there are easier alternatives, expect the players to take those routes and ignore the harder ones.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

The thing is, the game shouldn't be split between the mostly easy dungeons (save for a few exceptions) and the endgame raids. There is a rather big jump between the two with absolutely nothing in the middle. I feel like the devs should not be afraid in making some actual, true midcore dungeons. They've already stated that as far as MSQ goes, Shinryu is going to be the absolute hardest that they were going to make a story trial. Which is fine and all, but that leaves the rest of the dungeons that are fairly easy to do, unless the players in the party are woefully unprepared, or are not able to handle it.

There is room for a middle ground between the two (and that doesn't mean giving more trash mobs - actually, we'd need less trash mobs and more rewarding experiences).

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Trials and alliance raids exist in between expert dungeons and normal raids.

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Originally Posted by linay

Trials and alliance raids exist in between expert dungeons and normal raids.

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A lot of the trials are closer to easy than challenging. Just looking at the SB Trials, the only ones that required me to think and react well were Shinryu and Tsukuyomi. Susano'o and Lakshimi were leveling trials, and while actually more difficult than their EX versions due to forced sync, they're definitely no Titan HM. The rest of them I walked in blind to and didn't even die, didn't wipe, just saw the "don't stand here you dummy" mechanics and did the needful. Vast majority of dungeons were like that too. Mind you I main healer, so when a piece of content actually forces me to participate as a healer, it's always a welcome surprise. It's usually the midcore content that does that best- I need to heal, I need to be situationally aware, but I don't have to stress so much about optimization like Savage/EX demands.

Alliance raids are the only content that really hit the sweet spot IMO. Ever since VA there is at least one boss that will punish inattentiveness and lack of skill without making a comeback hopeless. I wish there was more content on that level of difficulty.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

I remember the time back in 2.1 when Pharos Sirius was the hardest of the level 50 dungeons. Because people we're so bad at it, they ended up doing Wanderer's Palace and Haukke Manor (Hard) more often because they were easier to complete for similar rewards. One's mileage may vary for Copperbell Mines (Hard) and Amdapor Keep pre-nerf.

In the end, the reward has to match the effort the players put in. If there are easier alternatives, expect the players to take those routes and ignore the harder ones.

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Exactly - that's why I'm saying that the dungeons have to be rewarding experiences. We wouldn't know midcore content because the devs have not approached it since, honestly, the Vault. An argument could be made in Stormblood for Bardam's, but really, the main difficulty came in the form of the trash mobs in combination with the ilvl gear up until the second boss. Making harder hitting trash does not equate to a proper difficulty curve, because it's still the exact same thing - gather trash, AoE them down. There are plenty of hard-to-get rewards now that could be offered up in future content to match the difficulty.