BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

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Originally Posted by Zakon

You seem simultaneously happy with the implementation and defending it, while also talking about how the blue mage won't be overpowered and that it can do group content so long as they are partied up.

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I was speaking hypothetically. I merely illustrated what would happen IF SE were to allow the BLU -as is- into high end content.

In case it still isn't clear: I consider the current iteration of BLU completely useless in PvE due to the fact that most bosses will be immune to 90% of what they can do. I am glad that SE keeps them out of current content because I am not interested in arguing with players dead set on playing them no matter the actual resulting performance.

I would be really disappointed if BLU can't be used in endgame content. I think learning abilities from enemies is a nice idea and having 50 (+) skills to choose from might look like it would be hard to balance, but I think there are options that could make the job playable in raids.
For example a BLU would only be able to join a pf and start a raid / ex trial instance when it learned a specific amount of skills / all skills. Or they could make it so that when a BLU enters a raid / ex trial, it can't choose the skills it takes but instead has a certain set of abilities available for that certain content. And with 50 (+) skills I think it's possible to have more than 1 rotation / style of play to choose from. I rather take this limited option than not be able to play the job at all in endgame content.
At this rate this job doesn't feel like a job, it feels like some kind of mini game and should be advertised as such if the level cap doesn't increase to 80 in the next expansion.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

It does sound like a pain to work around, but I think it *could* work with more back to the drawing board.

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To be frank: I'd rather have the DEVs focus their time and energy on something else than trying boneheaded to make a single player concept work in a multi player environment.
Simply put: SE has way bigger fish to fry.

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Originally Posted by supaiku

At this rate this job doesn't feel like a job, it feels like some kind of mini game and should be advertised as such if the level cap doesn't increase to 80 in the next expansion.

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Pretty much, this. I think SE failed to communicate on a massive level here. People were expecting a usable endgame class and that's not possible. They should have clearly stated that right from the start when the BLU discussions came up.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I consider the current iteration of BLU completely useless in PvE due to the fact that most bosses will be immune to 90% of what they can do.

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What basis do you have for that? Past FF experience would certainly seem to indicate that bosses would be immune to things like Level 5 Death, but the devs only gave two reasons for why Blue Mage couldn't work in normal raid content, and one of them was that Level 5 Death would insta-kill bosses. Seems like they were confirming the exact opposite of your theory that bosses will be immune to blue magic skills.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

What basis do you have for that? Past FF experience would certainly seem to indicate that bosses would be immune to things like Level 5 Death, but the devs only gave two reasons for why Blue Mage couldn't work in normal raid content, and one of them was that Level 5 Death would insta-kill bosses. Seems like they were confirming the exact opposite of your theory that bosses will be immune to blue magic skills.

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Another question that should be obvious for anyone that ever did some raiding in an MMO. I am not saying this to be arrogant, I am saying this because it's quite known that in raiding encounter integrity is all. Undermine that and the whole experience falls flat.

BLU spells have two components: Status effects (which is what makes them actually strong) and direct damage.
Take a Morb breath for instance: it's an insanely powerful spell, direct damage is low but the statuses cripple the target.

In a savage fight, SE would have to cut out most of the statuses via immunity, as not to break the encounter. What you'd end up with would be a weak ass spell with a little dot and maybe a "boss does 5% less damage for 5 seconds" similar to mitigation CDs of the other classes.

It's not about the spell not working on a coding level, sure they could let you insta death or cripple A10s for 30 seconds. It's just not feasible because it would completely ruin the actual challenge of the boss. And if you design around it, you would mandate a BLU in every party (which was your premise, I believe).

There just is no middle ground here. Either nerf BLU into oblivion in current content, making it a disjointed mess of randomly executed abilities that only deal puny damage (killing most of the fun of the class) or make it absolutely mandatory in order to beat content to get the full BLU experience enabled.

People are getting very hung up on the imbalanced niche abilities of Blue Mage without recognizing their huge list of abilities that offer bits of unique support or relatively normal damage options. You could certainly balance abilities like Aqualung, Magic Hammer, Goblin Punch, Off-Guard, Shockwave Pulsar, Level x Flare, Level x Holy, Dragon Force, Twister, Matra Magic, Vampire/HP Drain, Angel Whisper (longer cooldown Warden's Paeon?), Grand Delta, Trine, Lancet, etc. etc. etc. etc.

The crazy weird unbalanced gamebreaker abilities are in the minority. And really, would they be that fun to use in this game anyway? Woo hoo, we get to use Level 5 Death on some enemies in the overworld. They already die in 3 hits maximum anyway. Yay, Self Destruct.

I feel like I'm crazy for thinking Blue Mage's identity isn't so fragile that it needs these weird skills to exist and be considered a Blue Mage.

What I am personally interested in is this:
What is it in the actual gameplay of BLU that makes people a fan of the class?
I get the "learn stuff from enemies" part appeals to collectors but the resulting gameplay sounds quite ... dull. You just spam all abilities at your disposal, Guild Wars 2 style.
Can a BLU even get some sort of flow like BLM or SMN, making the class feel round / mandating player skill?

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Originally Posted by Valdegarde

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The naysayers completely boggle my mind and I agree with you.

They seem to forget that Yoshida and his team have 100% complete control over every aspect of job balance and performance. This is also a job that hasn't even been released yet! They can modify literally anything about it to make it balanced and work in group content.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

What I am personally interested in is this:
What is it in the actual gameplay of BLU that makes people a fan of the class?

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It was the aspect of wielding the cool monster abilities that are normally inaccessible to the players and the visceral satisfaction of killing a monster with it's own attack.

Another really cool aspect that got me in to them was the blue mages in FFXI. Their lore and setup was one of the most interesting and best executed. Short version, it involved the blue mages removing your eye and replacing it with a lens that allowed you to draw in the power of monsters. Allowing potentially unlimited power as you drew in more, but over time every blue mage would become corrupted by all the monster essence and become an abomination. Slowly losing your humanity (in the literal and figurative sense) for the sake of more and more power, it was a very interesting concept and theme.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Pretty much, this. I think SE failed to communicate on a massive level here. People were expecting a usable endgame class and that's not possible. They should have clearly stated that right from the start when the BLU discussions came up.

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I agree (well, aside from the "not possible" part). Calling it a "limited job" still means it's a job, and people's expectations were in accordance with that. Now, true, they did have two different bulletins in their list for "Limited Class" and "level cap is 50" so one probably didn't mean the other, but it gave us hope that's what they meant and then took a day to let the playerbase stew in both expectations and and concerns.
Not to mention they brought in the, what was his position? SE CEO? To introduce it. You'd think they wouldn't burn such a pr stunt on what's effectively side content.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Another really cool aspect that got me in to them was the blue mages in FFXI. Their lore and setup was one of the most interesting and best executed. Short version, it involved the blue mages removing your eye and replacing it with a lens that allowed you to draw in the power of monsters. Allowing potentially unlimited power as you drew in more, but over time every blue mage would become corrupted by all the monster essence and become an abomination. Slowly losing your humanity (in the literal and figurative sense) for the sake of more and more power, it was a very interesting concept and theme.

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Ah I can understand that.
It's basically the same theme as the Warlock from WoW: "fight fire with fire while dancing around the inevitable corruption/possession".