Character Creation Has A Race Problem

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Originally Posted by kikix12

You are the one that both brought up other games and their creators and how much freedom they have, as well as as compared FFXIV to them. I merely responded to that. Only now do you seem to try and reduce the scope of that comparison, but even then, just at the face value for the sake of negating what I said.

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I specifically brought up GW2 as an example as they have a similar method to XIV. But yes, there are games that have far better character creators. I'm sorry I did not write an essay to explore my every last thought on the matter, but I assure you, I am not just trying to shift the point of my argument to win an online conversation.

But we can go back to my first comment in the thread:

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Plenty of games manage just fine to add more ethnic looking faces into the mix. GW2, which is another game that relies heavily on "pre-set" faces, does a far better job with this. They've always had the standard Caucasian/Asian face options, and they've recently added a bunch of black/African faces and hairstyles which are quite nice.

XIV's creator is insanely limited, so I'm doubting they will ever add more ethnic looking options, but I can appreciate why people would like to have the option.

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My second post:

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I don't get why people seem to relish the the fact that customization is so limited in this game. I personally have been able to make characters I like, so I'm content enough, but many other games blow XIV out of the water with the characters you can create.

But yeah, I am always surprised by the amount of push-back that occurs from the players when people suggest expanding options. Boggles the mind.

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Third:

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

It never hurts to keep an eye on your competition and maybe even get inspiration from them. Improving on a game is always possible, and there are many, MANY things that other games handle in a superior way.

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Fourth:

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I think a lot of the issue is that they can't otherwise the game will implode. At least that's how Yoshi makes it sound. Still, it never hurts to ask for more customization. If they do it, great. If not, we get to decide if we can continue playing with what we're given.

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Not quoting my last two as one deals with pancake asses, and the other is only a few posts above.

But as you can discern from my comments, I'm a fan of the idea of more customization options. I've never asked for sliders. I only addressed sliders after you mentioned them. My first comment was discussing more faces/features, the remainder were more general "customization can always be better".

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Yes, but it's not as easy as one would think. Humanly possible variations include people that are 1,6m and 1,9m high. Make a body of a 1,9m high person with the legs of a 1,6m high person and you have a caricature while using sliders limited to humanly possible values.

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Just take a ride in a RL bus. you see way worse "caricatures" than that. :D

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

OP is confused when she mentions "brown," brown is not a race, it's a synonym for mixed. That's entirely different from dark asian. To me this not about feelings or not siding with anyone, just going with scientific facts; southeast asians and afrikans are different races. The reason they're dark is because they used to be Afrikans before they became Asian.

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Then as an "ex-Afrikan", I think the lack of "Afrikan" customization is fine. They can add it a later or not, it doesn't change much; there are more glaring issues to address. Calling it a "problem" is like swallowing a tumblr pill, blowing a non-issue out of proportion for shits and giggles. I mean, I suspect OP is 99% bait, but I'll bite.

Because the only ideas that matter are yours and we must make sure things that don't matter to you must not be discussed. That's not how forums and communities work.

There is absolutely an issue with the lack of diverse racial feature options in the character creator, and it's surprising to me that this is the first time I've seen it brought up on the forums.

Sure, there are a handful of differing face/hair options and a... we'll call it a "decent" range of skin tones, but the lack of options for anything that isn't small/dainty/straight is honestly concerning and always disappointing.

I'd think people would be happy to advocate for more customization options and the chance to ease the rampant same-face syndrome the game has been suffering from for years.

But of course if you talk about it as a race issue and not as an aesthetic one, you'll have a bunch of intentionally misguided people come out of the woodwork muttering "how DARE you talk about things that I PERSONALLY don't have a problem with!??? this is what's wrong with the world today and tbh YOU'RE the REAL racist for talking about racism!!!1"

Yes this is a fantasy game that has fantasy races in it. If one group of people can exist in this fantasy world with no one questioning their presence, then there is literally no reason to exclude anyone else.

"It's just fantasy!" should be used to explain why a dragon swooped in to steal the magic sword at the last second, NOT to excuse a lack of diversity in media.

Race Problem???? In a video game????? 1st world problems, yo. Grow up.

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Originally Posted by wondergroove

There is absolutely an issue with the lack of diverse racial feature options in the character creator, and it's surprising to me that this is the first time I've seen it brought up on the forums.

Sure, there are a handful of differing face/hair options and a... we'll call it a "decent" range of skin tones, but the lack of options for anything that isn't small/dainty/straight is honestly concerning and always disappointing.

I'd think people would be happy to advocate for more customization options and the chance to ease the rampant same-face syndrome the game has been suffering from for years.

But of course if you talk about it as a race issue and not as an aesthetic one, you'll have a bunch of intentionally misguided people come out of the woodwork muttering "how DARE you talk about things that I PERSONALLY don't have a problem with!??? this is what's wrong with the world today and tbh YOU'RE the REAL racist for talking about racism!!!1"

Yes this is a fantasy game that has fantasy races in it. If one group of people can exist in this fantasy world with no one questioning their presence, then there is literally no reason to exclude anyone else.

"It's just fantasy!" should be used to explain why a dragon swooped in to steal the magic sword at the last second, NOT to excuse a lack of diversity in media.

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I think the problem with making this a race issue sadly coincides with why it likely happened in the first place, Japan's lack of understanding towards inclusion and race issues in the broader world. I very much don't believe it was a malicious thing, but a good percentage really don't even recognize racial differences within their own native culture. Nor are they themselves ethnically diverse with an overwhelming majority of 98.5% of the population being of broader Japanese ethnic descent.

Does that mean we shouldn't push for more inclusion? Not at all. I'd like to see more variety and believe people have a right to desire more representation. I also believe that viewing the choices of a Japanese business company through a Western lens is only going to cause headaches in the long run. That's not me excusing them, or saying that it couldn't be better, but I think we shouldn't ignore the reasons behind /why/ the lack of representation likely exists. This is the same culture that spawned the ganguro girl fashion trend, not with malicious intention mind you, which if it had happened in the US would have caused a /huge/ scene.

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Originally Posted by Enla

I think the problem with making this a race issue sadly coincides with why it likely happened in the first place, Japan's lack of understanding towards inclusion and race issues in the broader world. I very much don't believe it was a malicious thing, but they really don't even recognize racial differences within their own native culture. Nor are they themselves ethnically diverse with an overwhelming majority of 98.5% of the population being of broader Japanese ethnic descent.

Does that mean we shouldn't push for more inclusion? Not at all. I'd like to see more variety and believe people have a right to desire more representation. I also believe that viewing the choices of a Japanese business company through a Western lens is only going to cause headaches in the long run. That's not me excusing them, or saying that it couldn't be better, but I think we shouldn't ignore the reasons behind /why/ the lack of representation likely exists.

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I never said it was malicious or even intentional. It doesn't have to be either to be wrong or worth criticizing, though, tbh.

I'm already aware of that this is a Japanese game and of the... uh, difficulties that Japan has with representation. Anime is already a great example of that. I'm not examining this through a "Western" lens; I'm looking through the lens of "human beings are extremely diverse and maybe art should be representative of that."

I understand the "reasoning" behind it. It doesn't make it any less of an issue, worth talking about, or something people should just blow over because everything else is just as bad. Ignorance isn't a good excuse for putting barely any effort into being respectfully diverse.

So yeah, I am going to ignore the reasons behind this particular lack of representation. I was aware of them before, I know them again now, and they're still not "good" enough to justify it.

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Originally Posted by QueenSophie

Race Problem???? In a video game????? 1st world problems, yo. Grow up.

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I'm sorry that there are issues in the world that don't personally affect you, and that being made aware of them Offends you so. I wish you luck with the growing up, and hope you feel better once you've had some time alone to yourself in your safe space.

I get the general sentiment of the OP, and while the thread title could've been better, part of me doubts the feedback they received would've been much different. I remember when SE showcased the Afro, I said something about how it was a poor representation of a non-white hairstyle (as in, the design itself was bad), and ended up being accused of saying that long and short hair was 'white only'. People end up seeing what they want to see, instead of dealing with the point at hand.

Anyways, given the evident limitations of the CC as a whole, the only outlet for more options we'll get is through the addition of new hairstyles. Too bad it's more likely to be another long/short straight hair variant on the occasions they release them though.