Dark Knight under review: Feedback to the Developers and Community Team

Grit and darkside should have no mp cost associated with them. The same needs to be applied to Sword and shield Oath.

Or Grit needs the mp cost to be adjusted.

I just want Reprisal, Low Blow and their traits back. People keep suggesting a Dark Arts TBN to be an AoE effect as raid utility, but don't want another god forsaken thing to use Dark Arts on. I'd much rather have our thematic party utility restored to us since PLD and WAR already have their niches with Veil and SiO, they don't need either of these skiis in Cross Role. Plus, it'd do a lot to re-enforce the counter tank identity we had back in 3.X and would help with the monotony of "just spamming Dark Arts" that Stormblood DRK is stuck with.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Grit and darkside should have no mp cost associated with them. The same needs to be applied to Sword and shield Oath.

Or Grit needs the mp cost to be adjusted.

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Imagine having access to rampart whenever you wanted, for as many times as you wanted, all for no cost. Sounds ridiculous, right?

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Imagine having access to rampart whenever you wanted, for as many times as you wanted, all for no cost. Sounds ridiculous, right?

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the cost of Grit is a 20% damage decrease.

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Originally Posted by Tint

the cost of Grit is a 20% damage decrease.

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That's not really a cost when you would only activate as a cooldown. If you blew your CDs for whatever reason and a tank buster is coming up, there would be no real cost. You just activate grit, take the mitigated tank buster, and turn it off. At best, you'd only lose a GCD for -20% less damage, but for what is gained (unlimited ways to mitigate any tank buster), it's far too overpowered.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

That's not really a cost when you would only activate as a cooldown. If you blew your CDs for whatever reason and a tank buster is coming up, there would be no real cost. You just activate grit, take the mitigated tank buster, and turn it off. At best, you'd only lose a GCD for -20% less damage, but for what is gained (unlimited ways to mitigate any tank buster), it's far too overpowered.

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To quote someone who explained it better than I could.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

If I were to try and pick out one thing about warrior that is "Design" I would have picked out the extreme synergy the class has within itself. I wouldn't have said the thing that represents warrior's design is the ability to switch between tank and dps stances.

Consider:
(1) Tank stance gains strengths from its cooldowns reinforcing each other (convalescence and thrill of battle)
(2) Tank stance gains strength from party abilities and cooldowns (Healing output increases/bard songs/HP increases)
(3) Cooldowns for personal use can be transformed instantly into powerful party shields
(4) Offensive cooldowns turn into powerful defensive cooldowns in tank stance (try IR with Inner Beast and tell me the 20% mitigation for 15 seconds with 10k+ restored each hit doesn't feel defensive and powerful)

Those are the kinda of things that I felt defined warrior "design". Not whether or not its tank stance is oGCD. If I were to talk about the tank stance I would be talking about:
(1) Snap aggro/gap closer for quickly picking up adds that also functions as a guage dump
(2) Its ability to ignore its penalties
(3) Tank stance gives up damage to increase survivability
(4) DPS stance gives up survivability to increase damage

Those are the main highlights of the warrior tank/dps stance abilities. Whether a single move is oGCD or not on all tanks is such a far cry from homogenization I cannot help but need to point out this list to you.

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I don't agree with the proposed method, but saying that would be like having rampart whenever doesn't change anything, WAR already has "rampart" on demand and besides that, WAR can do anything on any stance with zero penalties because WAR doesn't have any penalties, even for the worst penalty in their toolkit, they have another skill that invalidates said penalty.

PLDs and DRKs are simply asking for a similar level of synergy in their toolkit like WAR has. And no, its not too much too ask.

I would also point out that if tank stances became oGCD I highly doubt they would be turn on turn off. I imagine they developers would add a time until the skill could be reused, much like the warrior stance. This idea that they would make the ability oGCD and on a 1 second cooldown is strained to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

When did I say anything about opposition to making them oGCD, this is about removing MP cost.

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I assume this is at me. I wrote this comment in a rush and did not fully push out what I meant. It still has a cost as we would still likely be locked into tank stance for a period of time taking the 20% penalty. Does it really need a mana penalty on top of that?

When did I say anything about opposition to making them oGCD, this is about removing MP cost.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I assume this is at me. I wrote this comment in a rush and did not fully push out what I meant. It still has a cost as we would still likely be locked into tank stance for a period of time taking the 20% penalty. Does it really need a mana penalty on top of that?

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Seems you wrote too much in a rush to see the context of my criticism. Do any of those comments I replied to imply that there would be some balance to removing the cost? By all means, if a tank is locked into tank stance a la defiance, then I may more inclined to agree. But flat out keeping grit/ShO as is, but with the removal of MP cost? Absurd.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Seems you wrote too much in a rush to see the context of my criticism. Do any of those comments I replied to imply that there would be some balance to removing the cost? By all means, if a tank is locked into tank stance a la defiance, then I may more inclined to agree. But flat out keeping grit/ShO as is, but with the removal of MP cost? Absurd.

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I'm a firm believer that balance is not the forums job. The forums job should be to say: I dislike how this works please change it to something else like this. Then if it the community agrees then its up to the developer to balance the idea.