The general player base needs to improve

Purge the bad. Do it.

I wanted to chime in on this too as i have pugged a lot over the last couple of tiers.

The problem i have isnt that the playerbase is bad, its that the same bad playerbase appears in all savage/extreme content, they join parties they are clearly not ready for and reduce the quality of these groups a lot, making pugging content very difficult, theres a reason as to why the "clear parties are practice parties" meme spawned.

The problem is also that most of these bad players also enforce the meta, excluding classes even from practice groups or just content in general even tho they cant fully take advantage of a meta composition, the same goes for statics, most statics that cant take advantage of a meta composition to its fullest also only looks at meta classes and takes those, leaving classes like mine in the dust.

Now while i do believe that a badly-written guide is a bad influence, i dont consider consulting guides for your class and fight a bad thing, thats IF the guide is written right, a badly written guide can spawn just as many bad players as all the cakewalk content this game has.

Do i want the general playerbase to "git gud"? Of course i do, i want pugs not to suck, but sadly there is nothing that we can do about it as a community, some people are just unwilling to learn, or god forbid their numbers are parsed, they go ballistic(in savage/extreme content).

I have no problems with people who arent willing to learn, but please, get out of savage and/or extreme content pugs, this is high end content for those who are willing to learn and put in effort, not for the lowest common denominator to tackle, if you want to try your hand at this content create or enter a casual static*, there are plenty of them recruiting.

*I think casual statics with a carefree enviroment are a good thing and i like that they exist, i dont mean for that comment to sound negative, even i joined one once and the atmosphere is very fun, to the point where it made me forget a bit about progression and i had a lot of fun.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

The "if you dont like x about the general population you should only do things in a static" argument is a little dated at this point don't you think?.

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No, because if they actually listened to people and made expert harder...you're going to end up doing stuff in a static either way, to avoid all the wipes, 30+ min clears, and vote abandons. Do you think we're going to be able to keep fifteen minute no-death dungeon runs if the goal is to make them harder than launch ilvl rab and shinryu? Do you remember how often people did wipe and abandon on those?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

No, because if they actually listened to people and made expert harder...you're going to end up doing stuff in a static either way, to avoid all the wipes, 30+ min clears, and vote abandons. Do you think we're going to be able to keep fifteen minute no-death dungeon runs if the goal is to make them harder than launch ilvl rab and shinryu? Do you remember how often people did wipe and abandon on those?

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How do you manage to always make such quantum leaps? Right now, Expert dungeons are so braindead easy, if you did only small pulls, you wouldn't even need a healer, let alone cooldowns. I think making them a little harder than that won't lead to mass vote abandons.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

How do you manage to always make such quantum leaps? Right now, Expert dungeons are so braindead easy, if you did only small pulls, you wouldn't even need a healer, let alone cooldowns. I think making them a little harder than that won't lead to mass vote abandons.

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My take on this is, whenever they DO make harder content...people will complain for a week or 2 before coming to accept it, and learning to do said content pretty well. We saw this with Weeping City.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

How do you manage to always make such quantum leaps?.

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What quantum leap? I healed Shin and Rab at launch, and I went into them probably 30 times or so in two weeks at the patch start. I saw a tremendous amount of vote abandons, and a lot of them took 45 minutes from all the deaths. And what's the point of making expert easier or even equal to both of those, since we already had them and they didn't seem to achieve the goals people want. Making expert a tiny bit harder wont really help. The only thing that helps is making it hard enough that they have to put significant effort to beat the thing, like most relevant ex primals.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

My take on this is, whenever they DO make harder content...people will complain for a week or 2 before coming to accept it, and learning to do said content pretty well. We saw this with Weeping City.

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Not really. it was painful to do for quite a long time, because many people only did it the one time they needed per week. the only way you get comfortable is by doing it repeatedly often enough to know it by rote. Its just those that didn't could lie on the floor as dps because it had no real dps checks.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

What quantum leap? I healed Shin and Rab at launch, and I went into them probably 30 times or so in two weeks at the patch start. I saw a tremendous amount of vote abandons, and a lot of them took 45 minutes from all the deaths. And what's the point of making expert easier or even equal to both of those, since we already had them and they didn't seem to achieve the goals people want. Making expert a tiny bit harder wont really help.



Not really. it was painful to do for quite a long time, because many people only did it the one time they needed. the only way you get comfortable is by doing it repeatedly often enough to knwo it by rote. Its just those that didn't could lie on the floor as dps because it had no real dps checks.

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First and 2nd week of Rabanastre for me wasn't that bad. Heck, the very first run I got into when I logged on the day of the patch went flawlessly...and that was with a ton of new people, as there always is on patch day. Yeah, a few runs after that were kinda ugly, but what do you honestly expect on day or even week 1 of a patch? Perfection? By week 2 a lot of people had things down, but there were still just as many still learning. I saw a vote abandon here and there, but none of them ever actually stuck. Think I only ever ended up leaving 1 or 2 groups in total. So...it's really not as bad as you seem to think. Everyone's experience is different though, I just don't see the things you claim to see as often as you would say they happen. Maybe you just have bad luck. Random 24 people gonna be random.

This game has a reputation of being easy and forgiving.
so of course no one is going to find themselves inadequate, after all, isn't this beginner's first mmo?
"Well, I'm pretty good for someone who doesn't really try...."

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

First and 2nd week of Rabanastre for me wasn't that bad.

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Nah, you really can't say stuff when all you do it is once per week. You have to see a lot of people try it, and believe me, it is a lot uglier when its all skill levels and not just the people who show up first thing on reset day.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Nah, you really can't say stuff when all you do it is once per week. You have to see a lot of people try it, and believe me, it is a lot uglier when its all skill levels and not just the people who show up first thing on reset day.

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I ran it quite a few times, I can assure you. I wanted my SAM glamour pretty bad and the RNGesus wasn't too kind.