Open world PvP Zone

I really like WinterSandman’s idea. PVP Centeic options for all classes, including gatherers, that must be toggled. It would be like Corsairs Stronghold from Tera - capture the forts and resources kind of thing. I approve. Actually, I enjoyed The Elder Scroll Online’s optional PVP areas, except for the fact they actually did have gankers in the PVE content. But the place was so large and instanced, I could easily hide or avoid the main groups. I actually did participate in the capture the fort side of it on weekends. Was fun.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Actually I had an idea to incorporate gatherers as part of a PvP mode idea so that wouldn't really bug me. I already have bots that would be that equivalent.

So why would you be opposed to optional PvP in a PvE area? What would it do to your gaming experience? Now being optional I am clearly stating you have to flag yourself, register, or some other thing where you are opting in to participate (not just loading in)?

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Short answer, it never ends well.

I have never played a game where the PVP element didn't devolve into PvPers harassing non-PvPers for duels or a fight or whatever. To them you either participate in PvP voluntarily or are there for them to treat like crap until you give in. Flags only stop mechanics, it does nothing to stop harassment. I don't believe it will foster a healthy community and the overall game experience would go down because of it. I know you and others have stated different experience, but thats been mine.

From a game design perspective there's too much that will need to be held together with duct tape and superglue. The way classes and skills are built are different for PvP and PvE, how would balance be handled? I mean, balance is already a hot point for most people in PvE and thats when they aren't fighting each other; add PvP with PvE skills and those arguments will blow up 10x as big. If you assume PvP skills are more balanced then do you force peoples hotbars to change to PvP hotbars once they're attacked? If your hotbars change when you set your flag so you're always in PvP mode then how do you handle PvP skills vs open world mobs in fates and such? PvPers have far fewer skills at their disposal and could be at a disadvantage for credit.

This game simply wasn't built for it and pushing the two together would make for a very awkward experience for everyone. Given time the devs could probably make it work but why bother? The amount of work and time that would be spent trying to merge the two sides would be much better spent creating something for each.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

They said no PvE objectives

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I haven't read every post so I may have missed it, but the OP was definitely asking for PvE elements in the PvP zone. Everything he described was essentially a PvE map that you could PvP in. Titling this thread "Open world PvP" also reinforces that desire. If they later clarified what they wanted beyond that then its understandable if many posters missed it. Many people like this game because its not primarily a PvP game so when people ask for open world PvP it does ruffle some feathers.

Whether or not PvP belongs in the game is a silly discussion to get into in my opinion; the devs wanted to make it so they did and its not going anywhere. I don't like to PvP, so I don't go to the Wolves Den and I tend to ignore that aspect of the game, others do like it and participate daily and good for them. I don't lose out on anything by this game having more options for people to enjoy it.

Just Saying: I love Wolf’s Den and I have been adamant against the open world concept of PVP with PVE content inside of it. Alien Gamer’s agrument is entirely valid in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

There are a lot of contradicting viewpoints and suggestions here.

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The Beast Tribes and Fates were just an idea. I can understand not wanting to read every reply in the thread, but as the thread went on I suggested things like either removing them and focusing solely on PvP, or to be able to have a PvP toggle so that PvEers could do them (for whatever reason, even though they are PvP centric). That's why it may seem contradictory, but it's because as the thread went on... all of us who wants these things try to compromise for PvErs who enter the thread and said they don't want that basically.

Also, I'd be fine if it was instanced as Diadem... as long as you could enter it whenever you wanted and not have to wait for people. Let me queue for it alone and people can join the fight during those 2-3 hours the instance is up or something.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

I don't lose out on anything by this game having more options for people to enjoy it.

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THIS is the most true, and valid statement in this entire thread.

So long as neither side is forced to include content tailored for the other, coexistence in the game is entirely possible. There is no "too much focus on" or "wasted resources when they could be doing other things". Players ought to be trying to bridge the gaps rather than building up walls.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

This game simply wasn't built for it and pushing the two together would make for a very awkward experience for everyone. Given time the devs could probably make it work but why bother? The amount of work and time that would be spent trying to merge the two sides would be much better spent creating something for each.

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The game did make it work until 4.0. 4.0 caused the biggest divide amongst PvP and PvE. Up to 4.0 you could use PvE skills and hopefully you wouldn't have NPC enemies in a PvP zone/area. If you were flagged for PvP the NPC's wouldn't attack you.

We already had this and the balance argument was actually less than PvE balance so I have to disagree with you.

I have played PvP games and I never experienced being harassed. I just went about my business. We have the Blacklist feature, you can walk away, or you can go busy. There are many tools to alleviate the harassment you are so paranoid about. I show up at the wolves den all the time and stand in the dueling circle. I have no problems shutting someone down or I just let them kill me and watch them sulk even more because I didn't put up a fight. It demotivates people when you refuse to engage and they end up leaving you alone.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I have no problems shutting someone down or I just let them kill me and watch them sulk even more because I didn't put up a fight. It demotivates people when you refuse to engage and they end up leaving you alone.

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Sounds crazy, but you have a great point. People looking to grief or troll will move on if you show don't give them the reaction they want, because at that point, it's no fun for them.

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Originally Posted by Geryth

Alrighty then, where are your posts shooting down crafting suggestions? Where are your posts complaining about new housing items being added? Where are your posts complaining about the latest raid content? Or Gold Saucer? Newest Hunts and rewards? Updates on new minions and pet battles? PotD?

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I haven't made those posts because unlike pvp, that's all mostly decent content. Diadem was a mess, sure, and lord of verminion was a pretty big waste, I don't think too many people are going to fight me on either of those points, but otherwise, most of the new content they've added has been fine.

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Originally Posted by Geryth

This game is chock-full of content. Chock. Full. Don't tell me you participate in every single piece of it except PvP. Complaining about resources being used on content you don't participate in is a waste of thread space and my time even thinking about a response to it.

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Okay. I won't tell you. I mean, it's somewhat true, but hey, you told me not to tell you. That said, I do actually participate in pvp as well. Most of my glamour sets have a couple pvp pieces and I even have all of the garo mounts. The problem is that while grinding out an ex-primal or something for a glam piece is fun, pvping for all those things was a miserable experiece because, unless the game is built for it from the ground up, most mmo pvp, this one's included, is trash.

The glamouor pieces and the garo mounts should have all been available from something else, but hey, I shut up and grit my teeth and ground through it because complaining about it probably wouldn't get me anywhere. That said, this thread here is suggesting more of the worst content this game has to offer. I'd rather not see any more of it get made, so I'm just here expressing my thoughts on the OP's suggestion.

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Originally Posted by HelSpites

pvping for all those things was a miserable experiece because, unless the game is built for it from the ground up, most mmo pvp, this one's included, is trash.

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And for others like me, farming ponies and birds was a far more miserable experience than getting the PvP mounts. I like this games PvP. I get that you don't. I made the thread in the hopes that the people who play and enjoy PvP would see what could work and not work, not just say it's all bad and that we should not have it. I made it so that the devs can see what kind of things the community who loves PvP would like to see in the game.

I get that you're just here to express your thoughts on my suggestion, but since you think that PvP is trash and is the worst content the game has to offer, I don't really get the intentions of stating those thoughts except for saying that you don't want the people who enjoy something, to get more of what they enjoy.

I really do not understand. I don't particularly enjoy raiding or crafting but I don't go out of my way to enter raid threads just to say that it sucks and that it shouldn't get made anymore. If people come up with new ideas, I'd be happy for them instead. Good for them! I hope they get something that they'll enjoy. How entitled would I be, thinking that their content would take away something that could be made for me?