In-Game Parser.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

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Let play this from a non end game raider point of view that just want to play this game for fun non push them self to see Turn 13 but want to clear the turns in a casual way when he want now if they added the parser in to the game and new / casual player does not use it on a everyday basis he might not know what there dps is and i know this from experience on world of Warcraft when people started using dps add-ons and asking player what there dps was when they joined a party jut to get kicked out for not knowing which in the elitist jerk pov was not worth taking as they might slow them down this one thing i don't want players to experience just because people don't care about thing as little as what dps the splashing out does not mean there not a good player and i know this will happen in this game

Some food for thought.

The only time you'll publically hear about a parser is when someone is stroking their own ego or belittling someone.

Do you know why?

Because the players using it as a tool for improvemt will be keeping the results for themselves or within their circle of friends.

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Originally Posted by Konata

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You want a non raider point of view and someone who casually wants to move through the turns? Then see my posts... I still want to be a good player, my casual wife does, along with every other casual person I play with. Please give us the means to measure and improve ourselves!

While I may not be as hardlined as Ellatrix, i still want to be the best I can. Please give the tools to measure how well we are actually doing (outside of theorycraft!)

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Originally Posted by Kazumac

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im not saying all non raider dont want to be good player i myself am a casual player who raids i was saying about player who might not have any idea about the a persar and how bad an effect on an mmo they can have on a game

People use the term casual out of context too much especially when it comes to completion of content. There is no "Casual Way" to DPS your way through content that require strict minimums. You either do the numbers or you don't. Rationally most of the player base will not hold you anything more than the required minimum to clear the content. When people say "I want to Casually clear content" that means take your time with mechanics not perform sub-par with skills and still expect to be rewarded.

If you come into content over-geared with Echo and you are STILL barely putting out more DPS than a Tank there is nothing casual about that. That is PURE lack of skill or regard for other players who took the time to at least perform optimally.

You will get bad attitudes but I doubt it will reach the breaking point. I think they would actually make people more aware of how they play and force the Player base to get BETTER not more elite.

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Originally Posted by trojanweed

The amount of new players/casual players that are hitting end game and have only expierenced echo and over geared situations is the majority. This individuals dont know how to handle mechanics because they haven't had to learn them, They dont fully understand all the actions they have access too, and havent been pushed to learn how to get better with gated content. (I find a lot of people have never tried titan ex, and will never learn the fight, as they no longer need to clear it to progress.)

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I have a story for you.
Today I went to the WoD and run was a bit rough. We wiped several times, people complained about various job non-performance but we still beat it and no particular names were called. And how this run was looked based from parser perspective - top 5 (out of 15) dps was something like 460, 420, 380, 330, 280 dps. And I can image the amount of rage those numbers would instill in already quite heated situation if people would be allowed to actually see them.

It's often more important for success to have tolerance and patience than to see numbers .

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Everyone that is against an in-game parser: What is your issue with a self-only parser?

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It's almost pointless, no? Casual crowd know nothing about baseline and this number brings no significance for them, 200 dps number could be also considered "good" if it not compared against anything else.
It brings some profit only for a few console players that wants to improve but have no access to 3rd party app (or don't want to use it) and don't have friends who can do it for them.

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Originally Posted by Konata

im not saying all non raider dont want to be good player i myself am a casual player who raids i was saying about player who might not have any idea about the a persar and how bad an effect on an mmo they can have on a game

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Then if you don't want a parser the only solution would be to remove dps checks from the game imo. I have never been a fan of limiting a toolset based on potential harrassment. I have played the game many mention as a benchmark extensively with dps meters, gear score add ons etc. I do not find my experience in games without parsers to be significantly better than those with them. I do find games without them to have a much more uninformed player base though and that is something I do not like (purely because they lack the tools to be informed).

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Originally Posted by Hayward

This quote alone makes the case against party-wide parsers. We know good and well people like you will litter the elitist forums with the parses of players you and your kind deem "subpar" (You guys did it in FFXI. What makes you think you won't do any different here?).

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That's fear-mongering at its finest. In 6 years of FFXI, I can count on one hand the amount of time it happened and when it did, it was because the person was bringing down the group to a degree where going with one less was an improvement. Parsing is already widespread in this game anyway that chances are much more likely that any content you do with a group of people, someone in said group is already parsing. Most people against parsers are people who are mostly ignorant to how they really work, willingly know they aren't performing even decently or the I play how I want even if that means bringing the group down mentality which in itself is a pretty selfish thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Kazumac

I do find games without them to have a much more uninformed player base though and that is something I do not like (purely because they lack the tools to be informed).

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Extremely true. A lot of players in this game could easily get better if the anti-parsing crowd would stop spreading ignorance and fear mongering.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

And I can image the amount of rage those numbers would instill in already quite heated situation if people would be allowed to actually see them.

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And I can imagine the amount of rage if the tanks couldn't hold aggro or if the healers let everyone die.

Ohai thar double standard!

The people against this just baffles me. There's been parsers available for PC players since the launch of the game, yet you people want to deny console players the OPTION of utilizing the same tool.

Simply incredible. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything less from the OF.