Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

This thread keeps bouncing around.



That's a Reinheart translation from Famitsu. This is the closest thing we know to how it's going to be. Anything more is baseless assumption.

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No we have far better source material than that which gives more details than that watered-down quote from Yoshida, quoting relevant portion in its entirety for those who may not have seen it before:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...995#post138995

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Originally Posted by Battle Reform Blueprint

Armoury System

•Classes

Actions will undergo major revisions, along with both the underlying mechanics and conditions.

By major revisions, not only do we mean the tweaking of effects and potency of existing actions - we will work from the ground up to redesign and reassign actions based on clearly identified class roles.

We will also make a number of changes as part of our reexamination of how actions are equipped and the character requirements for doing so. First, actions learned by each class will be set to the action bar by default when playing as that class. Also, we will be making some actions settable on any class, while other "class-defining" actions obtained at higher ranks will be usable only by that class.

•Jobs

The job system - that series-defining trademark - will be implemented in FINAL FANTASY XIV (details such as specific jobs TBA). Quests to unlock each job will become available once you have reached a certain rank in the corresponding class.

Rather than being advanced versions of classes, we would like players to think of jobs as specialized playing styles optimized for partying. While playing as a particular job will render you unable to equip certain actions of other classes, you will be compensated with access to exclusive actions, which can be acquired through quests.

In practice, players will find the existing classes effective when playing solo or in certain party setups. Jobs, however, will shine in party situations where specific skill sets are demanded. Now, you didn’t hear this from me, but there are also rumors circulating that quests for obtaining job-exclusive equipment are also in the pipes.

We at the development team are currently hard at work on the job system, and expect to have details to share with you soon.

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Most relevant portions bolded for emphasis. From that its pretty easy to surmise that Classes = Armoury system, jack-of-all-trades master of none. Armoury system will be nerfed and class-defining abilities locked to main class/job only. Jobs will be party specialists that give you most pre-req Class abilities along with role-specific Job abilities on top of them, but none of the mix and match flexibility of the Armoury system.

I still find it amazing though how advocates of a Job/subjob system somehow think this is a better alternative than what we already have with the Armoury system. Why laud and lobby for a single Job or subjob when we already have 7 jobs with 6 subjobs currently? Honestly if SE just changed the names from Class to Job and each of the various Classes to their classic/canonical FF names would there be anything left to whine about?

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Originally Posted by Chiz

Honestly if SE just changed the names from Class to Job and each of the various Classes to their classic/canonical FF names would there be anything left to whine about?

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Nope. And with what you just posted should end it. If that's the foundation and how SE is going with things, cool. But the whole abolishment of the Class Armory System is too extreme since that would involve scrapping every Class Guild and restructuring the cities around them, the story lines since they're already weaved into them, and not to mention we'd all be reset back to square one making all of the progress that was set with the classes at hand now moot and pointless. It's pretty much a death sentence. And I think it's more than just a name, with the way things are now, people can't control or predict what a person has equipped when they're invited to a party. With jobs it'd be cut and clear for the most part with a standard set of stuff. I smell fear behind all of it, and I don't blame them since trying something new from something you're not normally used to can be scary. But it's just a game for christ's sake, whether classes leave or stay won't dictate who eats or has a job. (lawl to what I just did there) Chiz's qoute says we'll have both, so both it shall be. So now the concern isn't the battle systems anymore, it'll be preventing the community in the game dividing in two like here over this. People getting booted from Dungeon Raids or even slaughter runs through Camp Riversmeet, that's more my primary concern now. It'll be whole FFXI thing of, "All DD sub NIN or GTFO" all over again. Granted it was more prevalent in some servers than others, but in my first server it was heavy.

I'd prefer the jobs system from FFXI. FFXI's job system was one of its strongest features; FFXIV seemed to be the product of some "rebellious teenager" phase--in that they tried too hard to distance core gameplay mechanics from a system that just worked: FFXI. I also don't care for most of these jobs--I don't want to be a GLD, or a THM: where are my paladins and rdms? Anyway, the "FFT" type jobs are fine with me: Lancer & Archer are improvements over "Dragoon" and "Ranger."

But yeah--the abilities system just feels like a bad mix between WoW and FFXI. It has all of the slowness of an FFXI based macro system with the horridness of a WoW ability system where you cannot bind hotkeys to specific abilities. Overall, it just makes gameplay feel really slow and draws you out from any sort of combat-based endeavor.

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Originally Posted by Gnosis

with the horridness of a WoW ability system where you cannot bind hotkeys to specific abilities.

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I'm clearly missinterpreting this, since in wow you can in fact bind hotkeys to specific abilities? xD

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

I'm clearly missinterpreting this, since in wow you can in fact bind hotkeys to specific abilities? xD

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that's what I meant: It's like a WoW system except that you cannot set specific hotkeys.

If I could bind whatever keys I wanted to that horrible action bar, the game would be a lot more playable.

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Originally Posted by Chiz

Honestly if SE just changed the names from Class to Job and each of the various Classes to their classic/canonical FF names would there be anything left to whine about?

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Ya, the fact that, with "6 'sub' jobs," as you call them, people no longer have the option to play the way they want. They are, practically, FORCED to level every job. Have you tried getting through a behest (at the recommended rank) WITHOUT having a cure spell assigned to your DD *MELEE* job? I had to do it on my brother's character because he hates leveling mages. Wanna know what happens? You die...at least once. So, unless you treat the behest like some of the worst aspects of XI (having to kite and run from monsters to beat them, constantly), you're pretty much condemned to a life of endless hp returns -or always party w/ ppl for everything. That sounds like a spectacular idea, doesn't it!

With a restricted number of sub jobs, SE would have a much less complex system to manage and maintain. This means that the likelihood of an Rank 25 Archer actually being able to enjoy the game without using his...mp? -would drastically increase.

I wouldn't mind the current plan OR the OP's idea. Both are cool. The thing that really bothers me is the whole "Cross-class Abilities". That is just bulls**t! Healing should be FOR HEALERS. Or at least only for a damn casting class I mean C'MON! And I'm sure many of you like it.. But for me this is one thing I really can't stand about the classes/skill system. Makes my char/class feel so much less unique... Like you're working for nothing. Like you have no class identity, as Yoshida would say.

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Originally Posted by camjay

I wouldn't mind the current plan OR the OP's idea. Both are cool. The thing that really bothers me is the whole "Cross-class Abilities". That is just bulls**t! Healing should be FOR HEALERS. Or at least only for a damn casting class I mean C'MON! And I'm sure many of you like it.. But for me this is one thing I really can't stand about the classes/skill system. Makes my char/class feel so much less unique... Like you're working for nothing. Like you have no class identity, as Yoshida would say.

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Seems to me like once we get much further down the road that the system will allow for that kind of thing better. I know one of the things that sometimes bothers me is that my character has no real identity like that unless I stubbornly force the identity. They can just do everything. But once all the changes are in place, maybe new players will be able to look at the class/job possibilities and say "Okay, that's what I should level to get to where I want to be."

And they can have that identity. No need to level stuff that doesn't add to that 1 focus they have. We haven't had that luxury knowing so much is changing and could change in the future.

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Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo

Ya, the fact that, with "6 'sub' jobs," as you call them, people no longer have the option to play the way they want. They are, practically, FORCED to level every job. Have you tried getting through a behest (at the recommended rank) WITHOUT having a cure spell assigned to your DD *MELEE* job? I had to do it on my brother's character because he hates leveling mages. Wanna know what happens? You die...at least once. So, unless you treat the behest like some of the worst aspects of XI (having to kite and run from monsters to beat them, constantly), you're pretty much condemned to a life of endless hp returns -or always party w/ ppl for everything. That sounds like a spectacular idea, doesn't it!

With a restricted number of sub jobs, SE would have a much less complex system to manage and maintain. This means that the likelihood of an Rank 25 Archer actually being able to enjoy the game without using his...mp? -would drastically increase.

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Anyone can get 15 levels easy in three days by themselves doing leves. How do I know this? Some friends and I tried it just for the hell of it to see if it could be done. Besides, you're forced to level a lot of jobs in XI too, and Previous examples SAM, WAR, DNC, THF, DRG, DRK (they're out there) etc. And if you look on the wiki you see that most of the abilities you'd take from other jobs are relatively low level. So this whole "You get less with more, but more with less" thing really... doesn't do it for me. If casual gamers can wrap their minds around this I'm sure the rest of us can band together and do it too. lol

The whole "Heals Are For Healer" idea is just crap because if you gonna solo you have to fill all roles in the party if your gonna play alone you got to be tank, healer, support, and DD if not you just have others fill the roles.