Idea against Undercutting at the Marketboard (The next.. )

I don't think that SE doesn't care about user experience.. Rather, they choose not to be a market board police and let the player input have an effect in the actual game.
I'm sure SE is capable of dictating prices on all marketboard items, there are only a couple thousand anyway.. But if they did that, none of what the players do matters. It'll be basically like selling to an NPC and buying from an NPC. MB need not exist in such a case.

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Originally Posted by Gillionaire

I don't think that SE doesn't care about user experience.. Rather, they choose not to be a market board police and let the player input have an effect in the actual game.
I'm sure SE is capable of dictating prices on all marketboard items, there are only a couple thousand anyway.. But if they did that, none of what the players do matters. It'll be basically like selling to an NPC and buying from an NPC. MB need not exist in such a case.

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TBH a completely NPC run market system would be better than what we have right now IMO, especially one based on supply and demand.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

TBH a completely NPC run market system would be better than what we have right now IMO, especially one based on supply and demand.

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I'm not entirely sure that would be a very good model.

The way I see it, there's a large divide between crafters vs. non-crafters. Do crafters gouge people on average? oh definitely, most of the crafted goods on my server have profit of 400%+
What we need is more competition in the MB throughout the ranks instead of just at the end-game.

Only way to achieve that would be to simplify crafting so it takes up less time, or entice the non-crafters to jump in thus making a larger pool on the supply end of things.

Tbh that's one of the only reasons I craft, I'm not usually a crafter in many of the games I play, but in this one, I felt like I had to make my own stuff unless I wanted to be gouged, I just hope more people see that and take initiative instead of just complain about the market. We as the players have control over it and we CAN change the system. If all the crafters just undercut like crazy and make enough of the item to meet the demands, prices will stabilize then. One problem I actually see is that some of the high end crafters work together to monopolize and make sure the prices DON'T drop due to competition.

The nature of this and most MMO markets is so childish and stupid it gives me stomach cramps. EVE is the only market to ever get it right, but even they fucked it by introducing pay to win.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

TBH a completely NPC run market system would be better than what we have right now IMO, especially one based on supply and demand.

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Amen. It'd be hard to regulate the prices of items that can only be crafted, but rare drop items should be tracked by a market matrix within the system. Then people selling on the MB would have to compete with the NPC's, and either could end up being more profitable.

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Originally Posted by Yhximott

Amen. It'd be hard to regulate the prices of items that can only be crafted, but rare drop items should be tracked by a market matrix within the system. Then people selling on the MB would have to compete with the NPC's, and either could end up being more profitable.

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What this game is lacking, but doesn't exist any any other game is an actual supply+demand that includes the NPC's

Have you noticed that people readily sell stuff on the marketboard for 1gil when they could get more from a NPC? In theory? When you look at the buy price something will be like 1000 gil, but then you sell the same item and it's 1gil.

What should be happening is that the NPC's "buy" up undervalued products that they also sell, or change their own prices. Part of the fun of crafting is being able to actually sell your stuff, but people don't buy crafted items, only materials... and every game does this. Mass produce crap that nobody actually wants. So the games introduce desynthsis to basically create a closed-loop system where you craft the item, and then turn around and desynth it, recovering some of the materials. This would change how crafting is then leveled considerably, as there would be a market demand for all items, and one couldn't simply dump things and let the NPC's buy it for gil.

Here's what I mean...

Let's say that all the NPC's have an internal "buy at X, sell at Y" system. Everytime someone buys something from a NPC, that depletes one undervalued item from the market board. (Let's be real here, the only reason anyone buys anything from a NPC at all is for a specific quantity when they don't want 99.) When there are no undervalued items on the board, then the NPC sells from it's "internal stock", when it's internal stock is depleted, then it sells for whatever is the "best price" on the market board and depletes the marketboard. So the NPC isn't contributing to gil inflation because it's not buying items nobody is buying, but players who buy from NPC's are indirectly buying from the marketboard at some markup.

In the original Version 1.0 game, The retainers actually were stationed in a heavily congested area in each starting city, and if you wanted to find something, you had to look at everyone. Other games have these kinds of markets as well. Unfortunately this doesn't work very well in practice because people will rather buy from a market/auction board at a higher price if they can get it -now- rather than spend an hour looking through all the player run shops.

Ideally we should be able to station a Retainer anywhere where there's no hostiles and have them act like a NPC shop (with an internal buy at X, sell at Y list set by the player) but past experience from other games also says this makes a mess. Perhaps there could be a way for a player to "rent" a shop space as opposed to the residential area, and have their retainer occupy it as a venture. Like there are so many ways the game's market system could be improved so that it's not "yet another trash-crafting game" to sink time into.

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Originally Posted by Gillionaire

I'm not entirely sure that would be a very good model.

The way I see it, there's a large divide between crafters vs. non-crafters. Do crafters gouge people on average? oh definitely, most of the crafted goods on my server have profit of 400%+
What we need is more competition in the MB throughout the ranks instead of just at the end-game.

Only way to achieve that would be to simplify crafting so it takes up less time, or entice the non-crafters to jump in thus making a larger pool on the supply end of things.

Tbh that's one of the only reasons I craft, I'm not usually a crafter in many of the games I play, but in this one, I felt like I had to make my own stuff unless I wanted to be gouged, I just hope more people see that and take initiative instead of just complain about the market. We as the players have control over it and we CAN change the system. If all the crafters just undercut like crazy and make enough of the item to meet the demands, prices will stabilize then. One problem I actually see is that some of the high end crafters work together to monopolize and make sure the prices DON'T drop due to competition.

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but FFXIV is really harsh for new crafters , leveling to 50 lets say alchemy wont help u at all , because u need to lvl to 50 this craft and this one at least to X and this one u better 50 too or bust.

and gear , because crafters are "rich" ,crafting gear is overpriced (materias too), getting geared in every other craft cost u millions , millions u dont have as a new crafter...so u try to go step by step only to get smashed in the face every moment

how to fix that? dunno , because butchering the crafting classes will kill all the fun for the ppl that enjoy it, but i still dont know any1 that enjoys crafting for hours or that dont use macros for crafting , to do it blindly. Is fun the first 50 times after that u want the item and be done with it.

You're right, the barrier to crafting is very.. very.. VERY tough to get over. If I didn't have an FC mate to get me over the initial 1 star hump by making me my accessories I would've had much more issues with progression. That kind of barrier is what's creating the price gouging though and well, if you read the forums and see anybody who's complaining about MB prices, you'll see many if not most of them are non-crafters. Crafters already know of the progression hump and just accept it as is.. because there IS a decent profit to be had once over the hump. If you don't craft, you'll constantly be gouged for whatever you purchase (although, if you don't craft at all you really don't "need" a lot of the things on MB.. Unless it's for glamour or furniture and even then, the necessity for those things are debatable)


But honestly, anybody who's worth their salt knows how easy it is to make a few million WITH or WITHOUT crafting.. I think we're just lacking a very good source of information on how to farm gil.
Does crafting make it easier? Most certainly yes, but is it necessary to make a couple million a week? Not at all. You can make millions a day just spiritbonding materia, You can farm stacks of leather or fleece to sell on MB for almost a hundred thousand a stack depending on the type of animal you farm.

But every gil making guide I've seen always alludes to something to the effect of doing your daily roulette to get a measley 10-20k gil or whatever and following those suggestions would take you month to make your first million and maybe that's what we need to fix.

Case in point: Think about how many level 50s you've seen complain about not having any gil to buy stuff off of the MB. There are so many level 50s running around with less than 500k gil on them. and yet, I see people in level 30s that have that much gil just by being savvy and selling stuff on MB (crafted or otherwise). Information = money in this game more than many others I've seen, simply because there's very little loot from monsters and it requires specific farming strategies.

Market boards need to be free - crafters should be able to post for whatever they like - anything less is just evil. If you can't stand the heat... well...

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

but FFXIV is really harsh for new crafters , leveling to 50 lets say alchemy wont help u at all , because u need to lvl to 50 this craft and this one at least to X and this one u better 50 too or bust.

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Oh and btw, that's also dependent on knowledge.
Leveling a crafting class can also be profitable if you know what to make. Alchemy? Make Natron and sell on MB, Horn Glue also works (little less demand but I've been able to sell all I made) . Lanolin works wonders because it's needed in such large quantities for leve turn-ins.

Leatherworking = Aldgoat Leather, Boar Leather, Peiste Leather, Raptor Leather. You can do that from level 15 all the way to level 50. Sell the nq AND hq for both above material costs..
Almost every crafting class has this, and yet people still complain about crafting being a gil drain. It really isn't, you just have to know what to make for profit and that knowledge will carry over to the end-game crafts also.