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Titan egi would like to say hello to that, and clememcy and vercure are still up there in terms of healing, not as beefy as WW, but they still make soloing and 8 single class parties work. Also they did talk about how unworkable it was when they announced the job, it was like one of the main reasons they gave.

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Originally Posted by Physic

they arent talking about how unworkable it is, they made it a limited job, because if they had to make a blue mage who doesnt learn skills hunting monsters, and doesnt have blue mage type spells, it may as well be a different job.

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Learning mechanic =/= Limited. They're not exclusive to each other, and BLU is the result of Yoshi unwavering from his vision and inability to do something creative. You could do BLU like any other job but make Learning from monsters from Job quests, so it's still BLU Lore wise. It still goes back to what I'm saying about SE choosing the lazy yet more work in the future than choosing the right path of finding the good middle ground of adapting. I mean, DRK isn't like what it is in the other games, why can't BLU have a FFXIV adaptation? Yoshi just spews excuses after excuses, half-promises and disappointing compromises that ends in let downs. Remember when he said BLU had to be Limited because "Level 5 Death O12S"?

You can have a fully developed kit while still being able to have it be unlimited while maintaining its Learning system. BLU right now even shows that it can compete at level 50.

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

Learning mechanic =/= Limited. They're not exclusive to each other, and BLU is the result of Yoshi unwavering from his vision and inability to do something creative. You could do BLU like any other job but make Learning from monsters from Job quests, so it's still BLU Lore wise. It still goes back to what I'm saying about SE choosing the lazy yet more work in the future than choosing the right path of finding the good middle ground of adapting. I mean, DRK isn't like what it is in the other games, why can't BLU have a FFXIV adaptation? Yoshi just spews excuses after excuses, half-promises and disappointing compromises that ends in let downs. Remember when he said BLU had to be Limited because "Level 5 Death O12S"?

You can have a fully developed kit while still being able to have it be unlimited while maintaining its Learning system. BLU right now even shows that it can compete at level 50.

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the first reason he says its not a job is the learning mechanic. And when you look at what they did with cross jobs, you realize thats a major feature of the regular job system. They want duty joining to be easy, straightforward, have few impediments, and they want players in your duty party to be fairly predictable, and similar.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Titan egi would like to say hello to that, and clememcy and vercure are still up there in terms of healing, not as beefy as WW, but they still make soloing and 8 single class parties work. Also they did talk about how unworkable it was when they announced the job, it was like one of the main reasons they gave.

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titan egi has noticeably less enimity potential than blu, WW is pretty signifigantly more powerfull than vercure. Rdm/pld cannot heal on the level of blu mage.

at level 70, white wind would be twice as effecient hp/mana wise as cure II with aoe.

and this is all with just the level 50 skills.

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Originally Posted by Physic

the first reason he says its not a job is the learning mechanic. And when you look at what they did with cross jobs, you realize thats a major feature of the regular job system. They want duty joining to be easy, straightforward, have few impediments, and they want players in your duty party to be fairly predictable, and similar.

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Because it's from a really early vision of Yoshi-P. As I said, the 2 aren't mutually exclusive. Take SMN for example. Would you play a SMN in BLUs condition, you have a full range of fully kited Summons, like 8+ but you're level restricted, DF restricted and you have your own Masked Carnival. SMN is pretty disappointing being a SMN, would limiting it allow it to reach its potential or should SE rework or expand on the idea so it can have a better identity while being unlimited?

Also, SE shouldn't coddle the playerbase, especially when we have literally a novel of a thread on bad DF experiences on forums. Let people take responsibility for their actions, from not having skills to not using it.

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Originally Posted by Physic

titan egi has noticeably less enimity potential than blu, WW is pretty signifigantly more powerfull than vercure. Rdm/pld cannot heal on the level of blu mage.

at level 70, white wind would be twice as effecient hp/mana wise as cure II with aoe.

and this is all with just the level 50 skills.

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Then you restrict the Overpowered spells so it can be playable. If you wanted to use it, have to unsync the contnt. A lot of the groundwork is already laid out for it to be viable while not breaking the game

I don't really have many issues using party finder to get blue mage groups

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

Because it's from a really early vision of Yoshi-P. As I said, the 2 aren't mutually exclusive. Take SMN for example. Would you play a SMN in BLUs condition, you have a full range of fully kited Summons, like 8+ but you're level restricted, DF restricted and you have your own Masked Carnival. SMN is pretty disappointing being a SMN, would limiting it allow it to reach its potential or should SE rework or expand on the idea so it can have a better identity while being unlimited?

Also, SE shouldn't coddle the playerbase, especially when we have literally a novel of a thread on bad DF experiences on forums. Let people take responsibility for their actions, from not having skills to not using it.

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you can say that SE shouldnt feel the need to coddle players in the DF, but its clearly a huge priority that has shaped everything job related for years. We have well defined similar roles for jobs, specifically so that DF finding is predictable and easy. They said they specificalky felt rdm could not be a hybrid in this system. They cleaned out cross job abilities, and completely removed remenants of the class system so that abilities of your team are straight forward.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but its clear that to SE dutyfinder considerations are very important in job design to them. They definitely could make it less rigid and simple, but they have consistently over the last 6 years gone the opposite direction. It would be surprising if they changed directions now.

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Originally Posted by Physic

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but its clear that to SE dutyfinder considerations are very important in job design to them. They definitely could make it less rigid and simple, but they have consistently over the last 6 years gone the opposite direction. It would be surprising if they changed directions now.

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Not necessarily that surprising.

Given they're adding in the Trust system that will allow people to bypass the need for reliance on DF being highly populated and straight forward (Since players will be able to do their MSQ duties via Trusts solo)

Since MSQ duties is literally the main reason why they've put so much emphasis on DF usage - Be it through buffing its exp rewards so it's the most efficient way to level up, by streamlining jobs and ability gain so you don't have to worry about anything except clicking join roulette, by sticking exactly to the notion of the trinity with no hybrid potential.

It's all to get people into DF so that MSQ duties are always populated so people can progress.

Trusts completely bypass this need. Especially if Trusts later evolve to encompassing pre-ShB duties too (Squadrons cover some of them, especially some HW ones but not all of them, especially not trials or the 8 man cutscenes dungeons)

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Originally Posted by Physic

blu doesnt fit into the duty finder paradigm. Its not every role, its its own type of thing. No dps has that heal power, no dps has that durability. No, it cant raise or esuna like healers, No it cant mitigate as well as a pure tank. But no dps even has the possibility of tanking, and no DPS can output that much healing. Its clearly a hybrid

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I disagree, White Wind isn't enough to be a healer in content. If you had 2 BLUs healing you in O1, you'd wipe, even in normal mode. Hell, BLUs can't even heal Weeping City without help from other healers. And 2 forms of mitigation does not make you a tank. It is missing some pretty crucial role actions to do its job. So what can BLU do? It can DPS. It has a DPS rotation. It has DPS role actions. It is a DPS. Just like a heal and a rez doesn't make you not a DPS, an AoE heal and a defensive stance does not make BLU not a DPS.