What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anhaato

I agree with everything except the bit about the ancients. Any justification for a race getting wiped out that tries to frame it as the “correct” option, even if it involves writing them down to being completely evil strawmen, will always be diabolical to me. Pro-genocide narratives are bad no matter what, and that’s why this thread has so many pages.

We all thought the sundering was an accident, or that Hydaelyn was simply not good. There’s really no good way to portray her as good if the sundering was purposeful. A “better” setup of the ancients as a race that “needed” to die wouldn’t fix that, and would’ve made the writers even more reprehensible in my eyes.

---

Agreed. I was ironically relieved by how poor a job they did of trying to justify the Sundering and extermination of all those other civilisations as an attempt to prop up the sundered... or at least what appeared to be the message they were going with before the Omega quests clarified matters a bit. This particular approach would be a red line for me if fully embraced, especially after SHB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Ah yes nothing more engaging and directly involved than spamming the same one button as a healer.

---

I mean, the games I mentioned have you either pressing 1 button or 0 buttons.

Also:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

I'm nowhere near a fan of FFXIV's gameplay or progression loops.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

I mean, the games I mentioned have you either pressing 1 button or 0 buttons.

Also:

---

You act like it’s pressing 1 button the entire game. In 13, Good luck doing it against most boss battles or especially in the late game lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You act like it’s pressing 1 button the entire game. In 13, Good luck doing it against most boss battles or especially in the late game lol.

---

Cool. You occasionally press a different button about as often as you need to re-proc your DoT or to press directions to walk your character out of an AOE.

Oh wait...you CAN'T do that second thing during battle in 13.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Cool. You occasionally press a different button about as often as you need to re-proc your DoT or to press directions to walk your character out of an AOE.

Oh wait...you CAN'T do that second thing during battle in 13.

---

It’s not occasionally. Have you not done late game 13 content at all? Lol. Or even mid game. Later on you need to manually apply dots, buffs, specific healing actions, cancelling certain actions to speed up your skill usage etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s not occasionally. Have you not done late game 13 content at all? Lol

---

"If you want engaging content, go play Ultimate."

If it takes "end game content" to make the point invalid, then I think we're done here.

Or the approach of agreeing to disagree could be taken instead of every last little thing being turned into an inane argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

"If you want engaging content, go play Ultimate."

If it takes "end game content" to make the point invalid, then I think we're done here.

---

I didnt just say endgame. I said mid game as well. I think maybe you need to replay it and get a refresher because youre spouting nonsense atm.

Speaking of FFXIII, I hope we get a character similar in appearance to Snow Villiers. We need more big, beefy men that are conventionally attractive and don't look like they're deficient in testosterone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Or the approach of agreeing to disagree could be taken instead of every last little thing being turned into an inane argument.

---

I'm game if Kizuya is. Until then, though:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I didnt just say endgame. I said mid game as well. I think maybe you need to replay it and get a refresher because youre spouting nonsense atm.

---

Oh sorry. "If you want engaging content, go play Savage/Unreal for some people, I guess."

I mean, it's still the exact same argument. I don't know how you're defining "mid-game", but FFXIII is not that difficult of a game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Speaking of FFXIII, I hope we get a character similar in appearance to Snow Villiers. We need more big, beefy men that are conventionally attractive and don't look like they're deficient in testosterone.

---

Big bruisers that have a can-do attitude and wear their heart on their sleeve is my favorite character archetype ngl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Speaking of FFXIII, I hope we get a character similar in appearance to Snow Villiers. We need more big, beefy men that are conventionally attractive and don't look like they're deficient in testosterone.

---

Hien was a nice addition. We could use more characters with his body type. I wish he showed up more too…

Maybe with Garlemald as a zone that exists in the game now, we can get a unique Garlean NPC who doesn’t reuse the Elezen or Midlander bodies but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Eh?

Being quite frank, FFXIV's post-2.0 gameplay (especially combat gameplay) is way more directly involved than most mainline games in the series. If we're arguing that this game caters to people "who don't like learning to play videogames" more than FFXII's Gambit System, the FFXIII series' Auto-Battle system, or FFXV's "Just get close and hold one button" system, I'm gonna have to disagree.

I'm nowhere near a fan of FFXIV's gameplay or progression loops, but I'm seriously curious how one can even come to this conclusion.

---

Both XII and XIII already have more depth than XIV for the simple fact they actually require you to shift your party configuration, gear, etc, unlike in XIV where party comp only matters for speedruns, all resemblances of skill/trait setups were scrapped years ago, and all aspects of gearing are more homogeneous than the dull job design. On top of that, there is nothing remotely close to paradigm shifts requiring decision making and reacting since combat design is always a dance act that depends entirely on boss dance step prompts, most which have been recycled to death at this point in time.
Furthermore Trusts and Squads are both infinitely more shallow than Gambit even if you strip Gambit off 3/4 of its unlockable conditions and triggers. And even if you master Gambit you're not going to be sitting on an easy setup that will take care of every optional boss fight nor will the setup cover all your bases, that's by design made impossible, which means again, even with XII's own official internal bot mechanic you need to use your head and prepare your AI for specific fights. If you want to argue it doesn't matter for the main story, well, XIV's MSQ's only challenge since all the nerfs and buffs has been to actually not clear something no matter how bad your partners are.
Then there's dungeon design. XII trumps XIV no contest. They're actual dungeons. You might have a case with XIII, which shares XIV's genius level design of focusing on hallways, setpieces and flash over substance. But while XIII is the notorious hallway simulator, XIV literally takes the exact same enemy per boss distribution setup and repeats it every single time. Even XIII has more variety if you're not distracted like a child by all the pretty non-interactable things one has over the other.

I'm not going to argue against XV much, but to say you can beat the entire game just holding a button and pressing another is like saying you only clear job quest duties by wiping on purpose and toggling the very easy mode, or saying Mario 3D World has no challenge because you used the white tanooki suit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReynTime

Both XII and XIII already have more depth than XIV for the simple fact they actually require you to shift your party configuration, gear, etc, unlike in XIV where party comp only matters for speedruns, all resemblances of skill/trait setups were scrapped years ago, and all aspects of gearing are more homogeneous than the dull job design. On top of that, there is nothing remotely close to paradigm shifts requiring decision making and reacting since combat design is always a dance act that depends entirely on boss dance step prompts, most which have been recycled to death at this point in time.

---

The homogeneity of FFXIV is largely derived from the necessity of being a cooperative/multiplayer game heavily favoring Best-in-Slot as opposed to other setups. Paradigm Shifting, and choosing individual party member abilities is likewise no more engaging than occasionally using OCDs or ability healing/buffing combos to provide burst support. Granted, I'll give you that you have make more decisions in, say, an FFXIII superboss fight because you have more abilities to choose from, but even against those foes, there's a lot of time spent sitting at the menu waiting to see what the boss is going to do before making a choice to respond to whatever it was. But once you've got the proper flowchart of what to do, it's not hard whatsoever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReynTime

Furthermore Trusts and Squads are both infinitely more shallow than Gambit even if you strip Gambit off 3/4 of its unlockable conditions and triggers. And even if you master Gambit you're not going to be sitting on an easy setup that will take care of every optional boss fight nor will the setup cover all your bases, that's by design made impossible, which means again, even with XII's own official internal bot mechanic you need to use your head and prepare your AI for specific fights. If you want to argue it doesn't matter for the main story, well, XIV's MSQ's only challenge since all the nerfs and buffs has been to actually not clear something no matter how bad your partners are.

---

Once again, superbosses aside, I was able to make a Gambit/Abilities set up in my FFXII playthroughs that pretty much remained unchanged for the majority of the game, and I'm hardly any kind of god of gaming. It's been a while since I last played, but I recall setting up a two-mage party which abused Reflect and Full Health bonus setups to pretty much torch anything (bosses included) without me having to put in much direct work at all. Sure, there are times I would need change things up for "specific fights", but I could count the number of times that was required in any dungeon or map on one hand. The few times I died in the game were because the repetitiveness lulled me into autopilot and I didn't notice those few enemies which ruined my setup until it was too late. But those few times that I was forced to change don't ignore the majority of times I pretty much did nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReynTime

Then there's dungeon design. XII trumps XIV no contest.

---

Yeah, no argument here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReynTime

I'm not going to argue against XV much, but to say you can beat the entire game just holding a button and pressing another is like saying you only clear job quest duties by wiping on purpose and toggling the very easy mode, or saying Mario 3D World has no challenge because you used the white tanooki suit.

---

Sure, but by the same token, claiming that you can easily get through any Duty in FFXIV just by spamming 1 button on healer is just as hyperbolic. I would love to see a live stream of someone running a synced Savage boss or expansion trial with every button removed from their hotkeys besides DOT, Damage, and Basic Heal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Speaking of FFXIII, I hope we get a character similar in appearance to Snow Villiers. We need more big, beefy men that are conventionally attractive and don't look like they're deficient in testosterone.

---

So you want more dante from dmc5 looks more?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Or the approach of agreeing to disagree could be taken instead of every last little thing being turned into an inane argument.

---

Not allowed.
We Must Do Battle!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Not allowed.
We Must Do Battle!

---

Ok, but i'm not one for words and the only weapon i got is this:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cp...9_nuke_cut.jpg

So, uh... *boop*

Everybody loses. Now scram!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucida3b

So you want more dante from dmc5 looks more?

---

Sort of, yeah. Seifer from FFVIII, Jecht from FFX, Basch from FFXII, Reeve and Rufus from FFVII are good examples of what I like. I don't know how to explain it but there's something very 'off' to me about a lot of character models in this game. Some border heavily on uncanny valley territory. Maybe the upcoming texture update will change that though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Hien was a nice addition. We could use more characters with his body type. I wish he showed up more too…

Maybe with Garlemald as a zone that exists in the game now, we can get a unique Garlean NPC who doesn’t reuse the Elezen or Midlander bodies but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

---

Yeah, Hien's great but he's held back by his status as a leader figure since he can't really head off on a prolonged journey with our character. At most we'll probably get another role quest style regional adventure with him if they ever want to do more with Doma.

I also hope we see less new characters that are just altered Elezen models. I would have liked both the Garleans and the Ancients to have unique models...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

Big bruisers that have a can-do attitude and wear their heart on their sleeve is my favorite character archetype ngl.

---

Likewise!

Welp, I have started Mass Effect 3 now. This is a first for me, I've literally never played it before. I have vague inklings about what will happen, thanks to internet culture osmosis, but this is still mostly a blind experience for me. First impression: Vent kid calmly declaring that I can't save him before "Batman vanishing" on me is suspicious as hell. But apparently he was a real kid and that weirdness was just him being weird.

Also finished and uploaded chapter 9 of my fic, in which everything goes to pot, some ways of which aren't entirely apparent yet. I have so many awful, wonderful ideas that I've yet to fully explore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rulakir

You should do the Omega quest chain if you haven't already, it provides some catharsis.

---

Will do. I suppose I should also do at least a little of 6.1, if only to pick up the free outfit from Tataru.

So like, I looked at the tag list for this thread and it was amusing.

Also, how many of them were "us"? Funny how people can be so petty and immature that all they can do because someone dared to disagree with them is literally label an entire thread as whining, nitpicking and wild leaps of logic.

People are still dismissing this as a troll thread just because of the topic title, so I'd like to think most of those tags were left by those who didn't even read past the first page and are making foolish assumptions.

I find it commendable when some at least try to offer thoughtful counterarguments to some of the complaints voiced in here instead of just going "No, you're wrong", without bothering to explain why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Sort of, yeah. Seifer from FFVIII, Jecht from FFX, Basch from FFXII, Reeve and Rufus from FFVII are good examples of what I like. I don't know how to explain it but there's something very 'off' to me about a lot of character models in this game. Some border heavily on uncanny valley territory. Maybe the upcoming texture update will change that though.

---

The male characters who have been pushed into the spotlight in this game recently have been visually unimpressive for the most part, or otherwise too young and boyish looking to accurately portray their ages. Thancred is supposed to be in his 30s yet he has a face that looks like a 17 year old. G’raha Tia has the most offputting of the available miqote faces and only stands to look even stranger when the graphics update comes around in 7.0. Then there’s the case of Estinien, who fulfils the niche in the party of being the “high elf warrior” or whatever else that archetype can be called – only for him to have his hair tied up in a stupid looking ponytail because of how aggressively averse this game is to clipping while failing to accommodate long hair with sensible solutions like giving him a new armor set instead.

Hien was a character who had an excellent visual design and didn't come with the personality and mannerism issues associated with the likes of G'raha Tia, but like Aymeric he is held hostage by writers who refuse to let the city state leaders do anything. This combined with no new main party members confirmed so far leads to a male cast that is utterly lackluster. The only males allowed to take up any spotlight have to either be teenagers or look like them, no gruff and tough looking characters like Gaius are allowed on stage for any prolonged period of time despite him being the obvious choice to take on a trip to Garlemald. The culmination of all this is a cast that is overtly tilted away from traditional "heroic" looking men and those who they insist fulfill that role like Thancred or Estinien have been gutted by both their current writing and visual design.

Other Final Fantasy games do not have this issue so pronounced except for FFV, in which 3 of the 4 remaining party members are female. Most of the time the cast is balanced in such a way that there is a good mix of youthful and older, more masculine figures. FFXII had Vaan, Balthier, and Basch. FFXV had Noctis, Prompto, Ignis, and Gladiolus. Something for everyone, yet in FFXIV it feels like we've been cheated out of having that and the writers continue to rub it in people's faces the more they push nonsense scenes with the likes of G'raha or further dampening down Estinien's personality.

- for better or worse, it at least appears that FFXVI will pivot away from this trend with that game's story now confirmed to last not only from Clive's teen years to his early 20s, but also well into his 30s putting him in the same age range as Jack Garland. A limited AI controlled party was also confirmed and it will be interesting to see if those party members grow up alongside Clive like how FFXV's party members did. A recent tweet from Ishikawa that roughly translates to her only knowing the same information of FFXVI as the general public has been taken by many to suggest that she is not involved at all with FFXVI's writing, and Yoship recently reaffirming that this game will appeal to those of us who enjoyed the story of Heavensward.

The problem for FFXIV however is why we can't have Heavensward return here? After literally going to the edge of the universe and promises to reground the story at the start of Season 2, so many potential plot threads were sloppily ended and for now at least we appear to still be stuck with the same cast. It's impossible to know which writers are responsible for what issues have appeared in recent patches, all I know is that too many things went wrong in quick succession. The only saving grace in recent memory was the Omega questline which offered the player some agency, even if it was quite limited. Given the direction the writing for this game seems to be going in, following in WoW's footsteps in veering into further and further absurd situations, combined with a mix of other gameplay and content issues no wonder people are concerned for what surprises await us in 6.2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Other Final Fantasy games do not have this issue so pronounced except for FFV, in which 3 of the 4 remaining party members are female. Most of the time the cast is balanced in such a way that there is a good mix of youthful and older, more masculine figures. FFXII had Vaan, Balthier, and Basch. FFXV had Noctis, Prompto, Ignis, and Gladiolus. Something for everyone, yet in FFXIV it feels like we've been cheated out of having that and the writers continue to rub it in people's faces the more they push nonsense scenes with the likes of G'raha or further dampening down Estinien's personality.

---

I'm 100% on board of having more body types to work with, especially if it goes both ways and we start seeing more "amazon" ladies like female Roe, more female "beasts" like Kimahri or the Hrothgar, or (dare I say it) huskier body types like FF8's Ward. However, I do need to question the idea that the bishounen saturation was not prominent in older titles.

Pretty male protagonists has been the standard in the series since the beginning. Yoshitaka Amano's signature art style is all about making the central characters look as effeminately beautiful as possible. The default Warrior of Light template from the very first game is literally what Elidibus transforms into in 5.3.

Likewise our protagonists in FFII (with one exception).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...y_II_party.jpg

FFIII, and FFIV, etc, etc..

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi...nRosaCecil.jpg

I could keep going, but I think the point is clear. (FF4 had Yang, Tellah and Cid, but they definitely get a lot more downplayed compared to the main cast.) Tetsuya Nomura isn't much better, either. Cloud Strife was, after all, pretty enough to not just pass for a woman...but be considered more beautiful than his actual female companions. The benefit of Nomura's work is that he does, at least, diversify his male character roster, as with the aforementioned Ward, in addition to Barret, Setzer, Snow, Wakka, and half of the FFXV cast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

I'm 100% on board of having more body types to work with, especially if it goes both ways and we start seeing more "amazon" ladies like female Roe, more female "beasts" like Kimahri or the Hrothgar, or (dare I say it) huskier body types like FF8's Ward. However, I do need to question the idea that the bishounen saturation was not prominent in older titles.

Pretty male protagonists has been the standard in the series since the beginning. Yoshitaka Amano's signature art style is all about making the central characters look as effeminately beautiful as possible. The default Warrior of Light template from the very first game is literally what Elidibus transforms into in 5.3.

---

There's a huge gap between pretty male protagonists (Aymeric, Estinien, Elidibus) who lean more towards the Amano style heroes and...whatever it is G'raha and Thancred are supposed to be. Overly animated catboys or colorless blobs of indistinguishable features. In my eyes, they are too different from each other to fit the same category. There's no otherwordly or beautiful look to them, they just look dated and off putting. One of the main reasons why I was so blown away by male Viera when they launched is because I could finally have a hero with the Amano/"high elf" type of look, which is as important as having some muscle in the party. Elezen do not fulfill this for a huge swathe of the playerbase for a number of factors, all boiling down to them just being too far removed from what people want in an elf race.

The pretty boys of older titles also were just nowhere near as annoying. Bartz and Locke were funny (I vaguely to this day remember some argument that Bartz had with Ghido the turtle and Locke saying something about the price is right), Cecil going from Dark Knight to Paladin was one of the coolest things I'd ever seen in a video game when I first played FFIV, and so on. Also, if you play those titles in their gameboy or pixel remaster versions then it's not really the same visual saturation since it's just pixel sprites at that point. When it comes to later titles, FFVII's most effeminate male is Cloud as you say but it's balanced out well enough by Barret, Vincent, and Cid.

Overall, the earlier titles just did a better job characterizing the male protagonists. Their looks were varied, but their personalities weren't as bad or stagnant as the current state of the cast. It does look like FFXVI will turn this trend around after the game passes the point where Clive's teen years end, I just wish we could get a similar character here in FFXIV. Let him be unfiltered, unapologetic, and defiant like Estinien used to be. Have them clash with each other and reignite the same kind of rivalry Cecil and Kain had between them. Just no more stoic nodding and "scholar types" please.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/51987659...00305f382.gifv

Bishounen has always been prevalent in FF, that comes with the territory. Look at any of the FF games and the sketches, and you will see bishounen everywhere. Complaining about it is kind of silly considering that, but I do agree a bit more variety would be nice. It's why I've been pleasantly surprised by NPCs they've thrown our way from time to time that have been outside of the norm. Kind of hoping the next main "party member" we get next expansion isn't effeminate, and lasts for more than just that expansion. I'd kill for a non-human tribe member to hang out with for a few expansions. Maybe an actual lizardman, to spice things up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

There's a huge gap between pretty male protagonists (Aymeric, Estinien, Elidibus) who lean more towards the Amano style heroes and...whatever it is G'raha and Thancred are supposed to be. Overly animated catboys or colorless blobs of indistinguishable features. In my eyes, they are too different from each other to fit the same category. There's no otherwordly or beautiful look to them, they just look dated and off putting.

---

"Blobs of indistinguishable features" is certainly how you can describe pretty much every FF main character prior to PS1 hardware. If it weren't for Amano's artwork, or some sort of accessory, you'd have no way of telling Bartz apart from Fighter. Hell, even with Amano's art, Firion from FFII has the same face as the original WOL, Cecil, Edge, Bartz, Locke, and Zidane.

But again, we're talking about your personal preferences here, which don't apply across the overall playerbase. What design is more intriguing to who is purely based on personal or mass appeal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The pretty boys of older titles also were just nowhere near as annoying. Bartz and Locke were funny (I vaguely to this day remember some argument that Bartz had with Ghido the turtle and Locke saying something about the price is right), Cecil going from Dark Knight to Paladin was one of the coolest things I'd ever seen in a video game when I first played FFIV, and so on.

---

This really has nothing to do with their designs and, again, comes down to what you personally find appealing, which still varies by mileage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Overall, the earlier titles just did a better job characterizing the male protagonists. Their looks were varied, but their personalities weren't as bad or stagnant as the current state of the cast.

---

Agree to disagree. Like I said, no matter if you were talking about Amano's character designs or character sprites, there was definitely a sameness to most of the old protagonists that forced the older games to rely on gaudy accessories and/or different hair colors to make them seem different. Likewise, I don't think I need to keep repeating the whole thing about personal preferences regarding personality.

I'd rather not see the male side of character design be held hostage by aesthetics that are more common in games made before some of us were even born. I daresay that they were arguably pushed hard back then as a direct consequence of not being able to make use of advanced designs given how limited video game design was back then in general.

More variety would be nice, sure, though hopefully such would not come at the cost of good looking male characters.

I never cared much for Amano's style, personally. If anything, when it comes to FFXIV the character models are held back by questionable design decisions such as the lack of eyebrows for Highlander men - a trait which, mysteriously, the women don't share!

I'm hoping that when the character models are upgraded I'll finally be able to use revamped Highlander men to design a tall, classically handsome beefy male character with no 'weird' additions such as a horn or a tail.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm hoping that when the character models are upgraded I'll finally be able to use revamped Highlander men to design a tall, classically handsome beefy male character with no 'weird' additions such as a horn or a tail.

---

Sure. Variety is always good. But "classically handsome" means different things in different parts of the world, cultures and eras, and has not simply had one single standard of acceptance.

My type are tall, skinny, pale guys. Were it not for the fact I don't find most male Elezen attractive I'd be living the dream in FFXIV.

Also, latest plug for the thread discord. :P https://discord.gg/htS5TTP2

I don't hate Thancred's face. I think it's okay. I do wish that there was more visual variety among the main cast, ie throw in more rougher faces like Varis or Gosetsu or Gaius or Raubahn.

Getting rid of Thancred's goatee was a mistake.

Should of just gave him a full beard lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

Getting rid of Thancred's goatee was a mistake.

Should of just gave him a full beard lol.

---

But then he'd have to be killed by Ramuh/Rhalgr, because no man is allowed to come near that majesty. Look at the Dwarves, the beards are all on the gear because not even they can match it. Even Ran'jit had to die for daring to have such a beard without being Ramuh/Rhalgr!

Oh are we talking about bishounen again? Cool.

My take on this topic is the game does have a strange issue in its male characters and male character customization. The vibe we are able to get is "Noctis" but we can't go full pretty boy like Kuja outside one Viera face.


We also can't get a more rugged handsome look like King Noctis or Gladiolus.

Some facial hair for everyone and eyebrows for male highlanders will help... Then put a male highlander in the Scions.

You know, if I'm being made to swallow all these nonsensical slice of life scenes in the MSQ with all the tea swirling and burger eating, why not dedicate some of these oh-so-coveted scenes to something that shows off what the men in the party can do? Sharlayan has a burger joint yet no gym? Why is that? Literally every modern university has a gym along with these generic burger joints. Since the lines between irl and the in-game fantasy keep getting blurred further and further, you may as well keep going! Where's my scene where I get to go work out with Estinien? We already know from official art that he does pushups at least. To this day I'm still surprised that it wasn't a fan creation.

As for adding a male highlander into the Scions, Arenvald was the perfect opportunity for this. And then they stuck him in a wheelchair. Note: he's supposed to be 19 and Thancred is supposed to be 32. It's infuriating because not only did Arenvald have some actual color in his design, he also had a better backstory than Thancred and an English voice actor who was more interesting to listen to. He fit the bill as this game's "Snow Villiers" character way better than Thancred or Estinien do.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...65_400_400.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

-

---

Arenvald was my BOY and then they WROTE HIM OUT! He’s far more attractive than any of the male scions, sue me. His personality is also just generally better and provided unique perspectives, even if he wasn’t the brightest. But that’s the thing isn’t it, all of these characters have to be smart (except Estinien who they repeatedly beat with the dumb bitch stick ruining what made him cool in HW) and say the exact same shit.

Just a random thought, but what if Arenvald were paralyzed by Zenos (In From the Cold) instead of at the tower with Fordolla?

There's still a chance.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...104_091437.jpg

Seriously though, one of the few prominent Scions capable of fighting Primals before they invented the miraculous anti-tempering badges and isn't yet another white-haired character, and they write him out of the story in the final patch of ShB.

Honestly insulting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

But then he'd have to be killed by Ramuh/Rhalgr, because no man is allowed to come near that majesty. Look at the Dwarves, the beards are all on the gear because not even they can match it. Even Ran'jit had to die for daring to have such a beard without being Ramuh/Rhalgr!

---

Counterpoint: Cid has a pretty good chin curtain, and he hasn't been sent to the Shadow Realm... yet!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

Counterpoint: Cid has a pretty good chin curtain, and he hasn't been sent to the Shadow Realm... yet!

---

For he is wise enough to not let it grow any longer.

Dear God, burgers AGAIN?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Dear God, burgers AGAIN?!

---

'Tis a hint for our next primal, surely.