What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

There are various principles involving time travel and its all about which ones you employ that can make or break its use in a story. In the case of EW it employs the known principle of the Past cant be altered and the events of the present effect the future. In reality its just a big headache that's best left alone..

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Which is a bit messed up in itself because the time travel use in ShB was a completely different result and allowed a branched timeline to be formed.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Which is a bit messed up in itself because the time travel use in ShB was a completely different result and allowed a branched timeline to be formed.

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That can be attributed to G'hara traveling not just time but universes which is a whole another can of worms.:(

I thought The Plenty was interesting in isolation, but then people started attributing it not only to the Ancients but everything. "Perfection = bad!" Now it's just an irritating point that keeps turning up like a bad penny.

It wasn't perfection, it was boredom. There's nothing wrong with wanting to reduce suffering and improve the lives of everyone, that's the goal of basically every good society. I don't like the idea that because these people over here did something then it's guaranteed those people over there will do the same thing. That doesn't even work among humans, the same species on the same planet, let alone different beings on different planets. I also don't like the idea that if one person determines a civilization is on the path of destruction they have the right to wipe it out and force it to start anew. Again, that's antagonist behavior.

Also, just my personal nitpick, but in studies where creatures are given the 'perfect' existence they end up turning on each other due to lack of purpose. A true 'perfect' society would've resulted in chaos, certainly nothing like what we saw in The Plenty.

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Originally Posted by Seiori

It seems like writers were not sharing notes with one another makes a lot of stuff sound contradictory, like Venat the reason I don't make a comment about this character is because I think they are a mess of characterization. Wasn't the reason for the delay to mostly touch up on the story? I think needed more time if that was it. They really should not bunch a lot of key story arcs together along with time travel that is just trouble. Still see this expansion as rushed and my opinion is they just wanted to move on new things. Hopefully they can learn from the criticism and mistakes to make a more structured story going forward, now that they have a clean slate.

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I think there were too many cooks in the kitchen with it being the finale. I also think that Ishikawa had a different direction she was going with Venat/Hydaelyn, was possibly told she needed to make her good, and then did the best she could given the time crunch and existing story outline. Maybe I'm giving her too much benefit of the doubt, it's just the impression I get. Her vision in ShB was fantastic, but EW was such a mess I can't help but think it was compromised by outside forces and extensive rewrites.

Read a post a day or so ago..cant remeber where. But when stories for each expansion written Yoshi p and the writters do a get togather to get things all laid and determined. I can only guess Yoshi being there is too ensure no disconnect between what they write and what the game shows. *Shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I thought The Plenty was interesting in isolation, but then people started attributing it not only to the Ancients but everything. "Perfection = bad!" Now it's just an irritating point that keeps turning up like a bad penny.

It wasn't perfection, it was boredom. There's nothing wrong with wanting to reduce suffering and improve the lives of everyone, that's the goal of basically every good society. I don't like the idea that because these people over here did something then it's guaranteed those people over there will do the same thing. That doesn't even work among humans, the same species on the same planet, let alone different beings on different planets. I also don't like the idea that if one person determines a civilization is on the path of destruction they have the right to wipe it out and force it to start anew. Again, that's antagonist behavior.

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Good guys dont always do good guy like behavior. As someone else said sometimes a act of evil is needed to defeat a greater evil.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

Man if everyone who enjoyed the story would make a thread... But alas, most people are too busy enjoying the game. I liked the story. Thanks for your opinion I guess...?

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This tbh. Can't agree more

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

That can be attributed to G'hara traveling not just time but universes which is a whole another can of worms.:(

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Can also be attributed to the world he came from splitting instead of the timeline, there is an existing mechanism for splitting worlds from the source, and in theory the person who created said split knows about G'raha and his tower.

It keeps all the time travel consistent, although I suppose it's still disappointing if you're not a fan of that particular type of time travel.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Can also be attributed to the world he came from splitting instead of the timeline, there is an existing mechanism for splitting worlds from the source, and in theory the person who created said split knows about G'raha and his tower.

It keeps all the time travel consistent, although I suppose it's still disappointing if you're not a fan of that particular type of time travel.

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I dont mind time travel as I have a good understanding of it. I just find discussing it to be a nightmare if you are someone like me. who sucks at detailed expalnitations. Lol

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Except this isn’t true, as has been stated again and again. They did know suffering. They knew of pain and sorrow. Do the Elpis side quests lol. Also lol, using her recollection of events as evidence when in the expansion prior we know such memories are easily malleable and changed. Just look at Cid with Bozja.

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The Elpis side quests and the dialogue show that they didn’t know how to handle suffering. I see you forgot the dialogue on the moon again.

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Originally Posted by Seiori

It seems like writers were not sharing notes with one another makes a lot of stuff sound contradictory, like Venat the reason I don't make a comment about this character is because I think they are a mess of characterization. Wasn't the reason for the delay to mostly touch up on the story? I think needed more time if that was it. They really should not bunch a lot of key story arcs together along with time travel that is just trouble. Still see this expansion as rushed and my opinion is they just wanted to move on new things. Hopefully they can learn from the criticism and mistakes to make a more structured story going forward, now that they have a clean slate.

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No it was bug testing that was the reason, no evidence it was for story as they needed more time.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Any insinuations that they'd never stop using him in such a way are, ultimately, little more than headcanon.

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https://i.imgur.com/q3pU8pi.jpg

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

The Elpis side quests and the dialogue show that they didn’t know how to handle suffering. I see you forgot the dialogue on the moon again.



No it was bug testing that was the reason, no evidence it was for story as they needed more time.



https://i.imgur.com/q3pU8pi.jpg

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Better get those glasses checked then, because i know the moon dialogue. It doesn’t change the fact that we see firsthand the struggles some of the researchers faced, some of them having feelings like Hermes until they resolve their vows and understand what they’re doing is good. The main point is though it directly contradicts her whole point of them not knowing suffering. Again, she’s a mentally ill psychopath. Nothing more nothing less.

As for the “bug testing” i don’t think we should take everything the devs say as factual. They’ve been caught lying many a time. Considering they even had missing lines in the game that were featured in trailers, they clearly did some last minute changes both in shb and EW.