Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

Shit, he got it? LOL. Grats.

But hold on, what did he get banned for?... and twice?

---

Hell yea grats for Ricky finally!

And same question.. Only things he ever said was "no spear again", wth.. Lol

#FreeMyDRGYan

Also Sunny try this:

(Potency/100)*(((WD*AP*0.0034701)+(AP*0.0867122))+(WD*DTR*0.0017273)+(AP*DTR*0.0000421))

I've measured it the datapoints you collected, HT + FT numbers and very high DET (400+)

Hm, I'm out of "rainy day" data points for now (I'd set the WD data aside because I didn't bother checking auto-attacks and I was only testing one potency). It's surely close enough as an approximation to data I have on hand, although some of the residuals Bother Me™. Testing later. STORY MODE IS IMPORTANT D:

A thing you can do, though, is to solve using only some data you have (e.g. random points to get a good spread, stuff from one extreme, stuff that only covers extremes, etc.) and testing it against the rest of the data. This can sometimes tell you whether something needs changing or the computer is just saying "meh, close enough."

Yeah. Each time I add a new piece of data, the values in the 5th decimal place always shifts to match the spread.

Idk if I should just round the numbers and call it a day, or keep solving until the numbers don't budge.

But I'll try what you said later on tonight.

Tbh, it's always best to make sure IR is being used before either ID or DI for highest Potency Per Second increase. If you're doing 8GDC bfb and you can do IR + BFB together before ID, I don't see why you can't do so.

EDIT:

I think I've got it down now. I had a feeling I was missing something, all I had to do was look through my original data-sheets and I found why I was getting a few errors with Low-WD+AP results....

(Potency/100)*((WD*AP*0.00371)+(AP*0.0761+3.02)+(WD*DTR*0.00133)+(AP*DTR*0.000058))

These values are all rounded to 3 decimal places, but this is the most accurate one so far. With the addition of +(AP*A+B), it's now VERY accurate for even low WD+AP & very high DET, which caused a lot of inconsistencies with my previous work.

The only stuff of importance is the "var adjust%" and "var flat", which basically show the variation of the formula versus my collected data.

http://puu.sh/gZFKI/89f7633e71.png

Hey guys. I have a question if you don't mind :o
I recently discovered that our "ultimate" BiS gear included a lot of crafting pieces (which actually surprised me considering the amount of str you lose) and I was wondering if it was worth pursuing or not. If I understand correctly, skillspeed plays an important part in this set's strength. The thing is though, being a european player I'm not sure it would benefit me as much. Everytime I watch an american or a japanese player play I get the impression their skills come out much quicker than mine do. To give you an example I can't use two OGCD skills in a row, it slows me down too much (IR + PS can work from time to time but that's it). For that reason I'm not sure I would obtain better results with the crafted gear. (I'm currently sitting at 615 with no buff whatsoever, don't think I can go higher tbh). What do you think ?

http://puu.sh/h1Rim/46543d6d7e.jpg

alright boys I'm back

I have farmed the spear and gloves and i'm done here

see you guys in 3 months

LMFAO dead at your chat.

u disgust me

Holy shit dat gil tho

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kanemano

Holy shit dat gil tho

---

Fcob sales op

After spending 18 million gil on crafted gear, I've come to the conclusion I cannot hit a 9 GCD Blood for Blood at 395 skill speed and 2.45 GCD. On my test at 397 (2.44) I can make it however.

*sigh*
Guess I'm re-melding +2 skill speed on my Zeta.

Even with a delayed blood for blood? If you have around 100-110ms with that SS and with a delayed bfb, then you're clipping your GDC somewhere in the opener after BFB application somewhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

Even with a delayed blood for blood? If you have around 100-110ms with that SS and with a delayed bfb, then you're clipping your GDC somewhere in the opener after BFB application somewhere.

---

I'm playing with around 135-140 ms with WTFast.
I tried even further delaying B4b to the point where it would clip into Chaos Thrust in the opener before using it but no dice. I can make it sometimes but it's not consistent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sentinillia

After spending 18 million gil on crafted gear, I've come to the conclusion I cannot hit a 9 GCD Blood for Blood at 395 skill speed and 2.45 GCD. On my test at 397 (2.44) I can make it however.

*sigh*
Guess I'm re-melding +2 skill speed on my Zeta.

---

I'm playing arround 170ms with WTFast, it's "frustrating". I came to the point where I simply gave up on getting that 9th GCD. I cannot say for sure if the stats I need to sacrifice to achiev the 9GCD worth it.

I have pretty good ping and I still think it's not worth the headache. It requires too many things to be perfect in order to work, and I just don't got the gil for it anyhow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kanemano

Holy shit dat gil tho

---

I know right. I have a whopping 900k gil after my transfer :D.... :| ..... D:

Just looking at the rotation, shouldn't one really put BfB after Disembowel instead of ID as that'd let you do the second Full Thrust with it still up? I have craptonnes of skillspeed since I only recently started getting FCoB loot, so I can play around. :p

Also, something that's bugged me for a while - on the second rotation, you will have Life Surge up for the rotation's first TTT but not BfB. Do you pop LS without BfB or wait for TTT-HT-TT (at which point BfB becomes available) so you have both up at the same time?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seekified

snip

---

If you are able to fit 9 GCDs within a single Blood for blood activation, your opener should look something like: HT -> IR + PS -> ID -> X-pot -> Dis -> Bfb -> CT -> Jump -> Phle -> LegS -> TT -> Dragonfire -> VT -> LS -> FT -> Spineshatter -> ...

Always pop Life Surge with the next Full Thrust after it comes off of cooldown, Bfb or not. With lower skill speed you can also alternate LS activations between Full Thrust and Chaos Thrust for a slight DPS increase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sentinillia

If you are able to fit 9 GCDs within a single Blood for blood activation, your opener should look something like: HT -> IR + PS -> ID -> X-pot -> Dis -> Bfb -> CT -> Jump -> Phle -> LegS -> TT -> Dragonfire -> VT -> LS -> FT -> Spineshatter -> ...

Always pop Life Surge with the next Full Thrust after it comes off of cooldown, Bfb or not. With lower skill speed you can also alternate LS activations between Full Thrust and Chaos Thrust for a slight DPS increase.

---

I'm gonna try this out when I get home - if I swap out my Dreadwyrm choker for the Aug I'll have just over 400 skillspeed (not ideal, I know, but I'm only on T11 farm at the moment).

Aight, good to have that sorted out. I suppose keeping the cooldowns on cooldown at all times is best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seekified

I'm gonna try this out when I get home - if I swap out my Dreadwyrm choker for the Aug I'll have just over 400 skillspeed (not ideal, I know, but I'm only on T11 farm at the moment).

Aight, good to have that sorted out. I suppose keeping the cooldowns on cooldown at all times is best.

---

You've got 384 SkillSpeed already. Just delay your Blood for Blood timing.

This should explain it a bit more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfjU6hJC_II

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

You've got 384 SkillSpeed already. Just delay your Blood for Blood timing.

This should explain it a bit more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfjU6hJC_II

---

I couldn't quite pull it off with 384 SS while only swapping places for Sweep and BfB, but using all my jumps in my opening rotation probably adds around a second (after the PS-Phle-Jump I usually do TT-SD-VT-LS-FT-DFD if I know I don't need movement for the next 60 seconds). Will have a look at your video momentarily, looks good.

EDIT: I keep seeing people saying that HT > IR+PS > ID is a thing, but wouldn't that clip your GCD since you're popping more than one off-GCD move?

I can do two non-jump oGCDs pretty reliably between GCDs and have said it is possible in the past, but on further inspection, it seems some people's connections simply don't allow for this. Unfortunate, but that's the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

I can do two non-jump oGCDs pretty reliably between GCDs and have said it is possible in the past, but on further inspection, it seems some people's connections simply don't allow for this. Unfortunate, but that's the game.

---

I do it with BfB and Life Surge sometimes when mechanics have forced me to abandon the rotation and just keep stuff up, usually I end up delaying Full Thrust by a little less than half a second. It's not much, but I can feel the delay when I press the button. I only have about 140ms between me and Cerberus though with good bandwidth, so I dunno. I'll investigate further when there's time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seekified

I only have about 140ms between me and Cerberus though with good bandwidth, so I dunno. I'll investigate further when there's time.

---

Take a look if your connection is stable enough to keep the ms stable. Mine is arround 170ms, but it spikes from 140~150 to 180~190. That's why, sometimes, I can pull more than one oGCD with no problem at all, but sometimes it will "ruin" all the rotation.

That's why I hate skillspeed. For it to really shine, you need to rely on your connection, and any variation (client or server-side) will require a little more SS to compensate, while it'll be a "waste" during good connection periods.

Really looking forward to see how SS will change in 3.0, maybe making the DoT ticks faster or something, it won't be so related with connection, and worth a little more.

Without food and party buffs obviously, but fully geared :D

http://puu.sh/h66ez/edd4d6ff79.png

Ive been trying somethign with my rotation for a few months now and I want to poll the audience of drgs on this thread and gather your thoughts.

Quick FYI, Im currently set up with almost 0 SS. I do the normal opening rotation for the most part, except I use Jump right after the first CT. When the second LS comes up its right around the time Im about to apply CT which would be 250 potency x 125 LS (50% for autocrit) = 375 potency right? ...Where Ive been differing is instead of using the second LS on CT, I use it on my PS buffed Jump, which also comes off cool down right around there. Yes I know its two OGCDs in a row but look at the potency increase: Jump 200 + PS 100 (50%) = 300 + LS 150 (50%) = 450. So doing a double OGCD of LS + Jump when its buffed with PS will net you 75 more potency than LS + CT. Thoughts?

If you delay it for 2 GDC to use it on your Jump, you're also delaying it 2 GDCs when the 3rd one should be on a FT, instead you're using it on an Impulse Drive or something silly. You'll need to delay it even further by 2 GDCs for it to be used on the next Full Thrust.

I'll do the math later, but you'll need to check the Potency Per Second increase of delaying Life Surge by 2 GDCs for Power Surge, then a further comparison between using it on the next ability Life Surge is available on, or delay it by another 2 GDC for the next CT/FT.

I do have a hunch that it'd be a slight DPS increase if the GCD clipping is negligible. The last time I recall anyone considering it was before 2.4.

e: you'd be having trouble for the Full Thrust it's supposed to go on on the next cooldown, so my next hunch is no.

Im only delaying LS by one GCD (CT). The next LS FT I have to wait ever so slightly, but I can still get it.

imo 9 skill bfb isn't worth explicitly itemizing around with non-crafted gear if you're past 376~ skill speed, especially if you raid/farm with selene. if you have enough to meet the threshold just off of melds of crafted bis gear, then great! but if not, i don't think you should do something like swap dread choker for augmented choker to put yourself at 390~ skillspeed

it's definitely a headache to min/max around it though, especially at lower amounts (i mash pretty hard to do it at 365 sksp, gets tiring)

The set I've made is perfect for me IMO. Stacked heavy on DET, good Strength and enough SS for 9GDC BFBs. Btw:

My best T12 so far with my new set:
http://puu.sh/h7T06/03ea756783.png

Yeah, the other DPS were low, but they were messing around for the majority of it whilst I was trying my hardest to push phases ;_;

Dervy, I love you and your work but it's GCD, not GDC.
/offtopic

Nuuuuuuuuuuu I'll never change my ways!

you don't really want to push phases though ROFL

the best dps you'll ever get is if you kill it right before the second dodge phase

Parsed 555 in t12 last night with fully melded crafted helm and waist with the rest of the pieces being bis i130 det set. I unfortunately got targeted with a blue fire or two and lost a bit of dps moving away. I find different things to do every time I go through these FCOB encounters, I love it. My personal favorite is saving DFD for that first blackfire and having heavy thrust > comboed ring of thorns line up with exactly when the blackfires get the vulnerability debuff. Nice to see the numbers shoot up to 700+

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickyguo

you don't really want to push phases though ROFL

the best dps you'll ever get is if you kill it right before the second dodge phase

---

But that's what I mean. If I don't push as hard as I can, we end up getting a 3rd jump. Then I just go cry in a corner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeviand

Parsed 555 in t12 last night with fully melded crafted helm and waist with the rest of the pieces being bis i130 det set. I unfortunately got targeted with a blue fire or two and lost a bit of dps moving away. I find different things to do every time I go through these FCOB encounters, I love it. My personal favorite is saving DFD for that first blackfire and having heavy thrust > comboed ring of thorns line up with exactly when the blackfires get the vulnerability debuff. Nice to see the numbers shoot up to 700+

---

all the blackfires die from a scholar bane

you'd get higher raid dps if you dfd the first bennu and phoenix

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickyguo

all the blackfires die from a scholar bane

you'd get higher raid dps if you dfd the first bennu and phoenix

---

Here's the vid. If we were somehow struggling on raid dps or getting the first bennu down I would DFD the boss and the bennu but it was a pug and I was padding my digits bro!

http://www.twitch.tv/ugotperked/c/6509558

I'm not particularly fond of the entire potency per second math surrounding cooldown usage. It works perfectly fine if you assume the fight duration to be infinite, but realistically, you have a general idea of how quickly your group finishes an encounter and you can build your cooldown usage around that time frame.

For instance, let's say you're doing T10. In T10 you generally always have something to hit so you can pop cooldowns as they come up if you so desire. Let's say your group took around 390 seconds to clear in recent runs.

If you were to pop blood for blood any time you can, you'd pop it 0, 80, 160, 240 and 320 seconds into the fight (I am aware that nobody actually pops it right on pull but that's not the point here. you can change the numbers as needed). In order not to lose any blood for blood uptime, popping it 370 seconds into the fight is the latest point in time to do so. What that means for you is that there is a 50 second window (pushing the last blood for blood from 320 to 370 seconds) across the entire fight where blood for blood can be up and you can delay using it without any consequences as you don't hit the 370 second mark on your last blood for blood usage unless you go beyond 50 seconds. For this particular fight duration, you could most likely set up a perfect or near perfect sequence of GCDs for each of your blood for bloods - losing absolutely nothing in the process.

You'd probably want to assume that there is a window for the fight's duration (for instance, 380 seconds to 400 seconds if your group tends to finish at around 390 seconds) but I believe that planning out your cooldown usage based on fight duration will yield better results than assuming that each GCD you delay cooldowns by results in an inherent potency per second loss and cooldowns should always be popped within 2 GCDs.

I figure most competent DDs will arrive at a timing scheme like that just from knowing when a cooldown will result in wasted uptime or death. It doesn't invalidate potency per second math at all; "All models all wrong, but some are useful."

Using cooldowns on cooldown is raiding advice that comes from years of MMORPG experience predating this game, I've been told. It shouldn't be understood as a key to optimal DPS, but rather a reminder not to waste opportunities.