The Ninja Superthread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqrmKqLGavI Not really an insane run or anything, but this isnt my average latency in coil, I've had it better than this. 618 t11, it plays a part (like trhat 650 with perfect mudras wouldve been like 630 or so with mine)

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Originally Posted by Spayd

After further testing, it indeed clip but very little. On instance, I don't seem to get any more lag then in housing area, everything goes pretty smooth. I'll make a video when I'm home.

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I would love a video where I can see a comparison of your lag in personal housing areas vs. Coil. It would definitely make me a believer :)

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Originally Posted by Odowla

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqrmKqLGavI Not really an insane run or anything, but this isnt my average latency in coil, I've had it better than this. 618 t11, it plays a part (like trhat 650 with perfect mudras wouldve been like 630 or so with mine)

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That's an interesting modification to your opener, I'm assuming because your warrior puts up eye for you. Do you feel the mutilate and shadow fang without trick attack is more beneficial in the opener normally?

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

I was being facetious, but a video with those conditions would help us pin down whether the 1.0s/0.5s thing is good theory.

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I usually run DRG for my static, so Fcob is locked for me. Do you guys mind if I do SCoB instead, or it is really needed to have FCoB footage. If FCoB, we will need to wait for it to be unlocked, and by then, my nin will be way more geared for it.

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

That's an interesting modification to your opener, I'm assuming because your warrior puts up eye for you. Do you feel the mutilate and shadow fang without trick attack is more beneficial in the opener normally?

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Pretty much, yeah. I lose 60 potency to do it, while he loses nothing, so it's kind of a "why should I do it" type of thing.

I've been testing skill speed in regards to the opener and this is what I have found so far;

If you are using Raiton in your opener then it is possible to be fine with <395 skill speed. (Even at 439 the level of strictness barely budged)

If you are using Fuma then you can go as low as 382 and have it still be less strict than using Raiton at <395.

Because everyone has a different degree of Mudra lag I highly advise playing with it yourself and checking to see what your base skill speed value is and looking for the value that brings you the most comfort.

Overall the higher your value is from your base the smoother the opener. It should be noted that the opener only really gets sketchy if you are trying to fit in Raiton over Fuma under the effect of Kassatsu. Personally the only time I feel that Raiton is significantly more important than Fuma (under the effect of Kassatsu) is in the pull rotation because your BRD should be playing Foes. Besides that. the need to Raiton after Kassatsu is less significant later in fights because your BRD is less likely to be playing Foes when you have TA and Kassatu back.

Chloro strikes again, 651 T11:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CATsyI0UMAANoNP.png

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Originally Posted by valsemiel

Chloro strikes again, 651 T11:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CATsyI0UMAANoNP.png

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http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma...ovdbo1_400.gif

Has 5000 wins too in Wolves Den for The Alpha Wolf title. 5000...What does the scouter say Vegeta?!

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Originally Posted by valsemiel

Chloro strikes again, 651 T11:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CATsyI0UMAANoNP.png

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Bow Down!! (/kneel) Anyone have any vids of him MNKing? So hard to find content, lucrezia is very secretive. His most recent twitch highlight was from T5 almost 3 years ago.

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Originally Posted by valsemiel

Chloro strikes again, 651 T11:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CATsyI0UMAANoNP.png

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My run coulda been about 20 dps higher if the clear was quicker and I didn't miss + lag when I had cooldowns running (gustslash miss, > spinning edge lagged so i didnt get combo twice in a row)

This is my current gear:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/7183123/

Should I get the IW 130? I'm not sure if it's worth dropping 10+ det for a mere +2 dex and even MORE skill speed(i'm already at 420). Crafted gear isn't really an option right now because I lack gil.

I

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

This is my current gear:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/7183123/

Should I get the IW 130? I'm not sure if it's worth dropping 10+ det for a mere +2 dex and even MORE skill speed(i'm already at 420). Crafted gear isn't really an option right now because I lack gil.

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Lodestone is under maintenance, which pieces are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

I

Lodestone is under maintenance, which pieces are you talking about?

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Right now, i'm running a full augmented IW set(and one unupgraded ring because you can't use two augmented rings at once). Should I use the augmented belt(+2 dex and + 15 crit but, with 22 skill speed) or the wod sash(+14 det)?

The reason why i'm having issues with this comparison is because the i130 belt sends my skill speed to 436.

So I recorded most of our runs this week, on out speedkill attempts. We ran out of time on T13, but we'll be going for it again on Friday. This is what highly optimized DPS looks like on every turn but t12, since apparantly that didnt get recorded..

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...AjXbXYf1koHG8O

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

Right now, i'm running a full augmented IW set(and one unupgraded ring because you can't use two augmented rings at once). Should I use the augmented belt(+2 dex and + 15 crit but, with 22 skill speed) or the wod sash(+14 det)?

The reason why i'm having issues with this comparison is because the i130 belt sends my skill speed to 436.

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That's not an issue as long you're not running fcob and feel you're out of tp too early. You're already overcapped on accuracy, even more so if you don't do t13, so i wouldn't recommend to switch a damage piece for yet another accuracy piece.

okay im just curious but I have looked over most job and class items and, I've been told ninja has a better dps output than rouge. Does the soul gem actually boost stats like I've been told?

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Originally Posted by draco806

okay im just curious but I have looked over most job and class items and, I've been told ninja has a better dps output than rouge. Does the soul gem actually boost stats like I've been told?

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Stats aside, Ninja has Ninjutsu whereas Rogue does not. Huton increases skill speed and Suiton allows you to use Trick Attack during battles. On top of that you have Raiton that hits pretty hard, especially paired with Kassatsu for a double cast and a guaranteed crit. Rogue does none of this.

Soul crystals do give you a stat boost, but I'd say that the DPS increase is impacted more by Ninja's job capabilities.

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Originally Posted by draco806

okay im just curious but I have looked over most job and class items and, I've been told ninja has a better dps output than rouge. Does the soul gem actually boost stats like I've been told?

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The soul gem boosts your stats, yes. In addition, you get a number of powerful abilities Darkstride mentioned. And lastly, NIN actually just has a stronger damage formula (though this is only a few DPS by itself).

Can anyone tell me where in Ariyala you guys get the numbers +492.757 and such?

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Originally Posted by Moogy

Can anyone tell me where in Ariyala you guys get the numbers +492.757 and such?

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That is done by hand. Take the secondary stat values that you get from the gear and multiply it by the weighted value then add them together with the Dex value you get from the gear.

So for example using the following set: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/Q8AT

Dex: 388
Crit: 169*0.226 = 38.194
Det: 182*0.325 = 59.15
SS: 52*0.215 = 11.18

388+38.194+59.15+11.18 = 496.524

664 DPS on Dummy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRueCLijwCo

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Originally Posted by KroLeXz

664 DPS on Dummy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRueCLijwCo

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Nice run. 4min is the standard from what ive heard though?

It would most probably be around 655 at the 4 minute mark. Still pretty high, good work!

What do people think of this gearset:
ffxiv.ariyala.com/Q8UR

Assuming the following stat weights:
WD: 9.085
STR/DEX: 1.000
DET: 0.313
CRT: 0.226
SS: 0.148

should give 296.954 extra DEX. Is this actually optimal?

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

Nice run. 4min is the standard from what ive heard though?

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I was messing around when I did the parse, but with my Mudra lag in the mist - I won't make it to 4 minutes and if you watch in the video.... I pop invograte at a specific part to make sure I have it up again when I'm out of TP.


I'll see if I can get a bard of ninja to supply me TP.

what is the best materia infusione for yoshimitsu? 31det/44crit - 31det/22acc/22crit or something else?

So how much of a dps increase are the crafted ring/belt anyway...are they seriously worth the millions it takes to craft and meld these? I have rather heavy mudra lag sometimes and at my best pulled 611 at the 4 1/2 min mark on a dummy with my current gear. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1581404/

I'm also a real hater of the current relic questline so I can't say I wanna spend even more millions on a perfect crit/det zeta when I already have the dw daggers...

Edit: did another and got to about 630 over 4 1/2 but still want thoughts on crafted being worth it or not. I also am curious as to fuma vs raiton, I use 1 fuma in my opener but use raiton every time after that.

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Originally Posted by SolarMisae

So how much of a dps increase are the crafted ring/belt anyway...are they seriously worth the millions it takes to craft and meld these? I have rather heavy mudra lag sometimes and at my best pulled 611 at the 4 1/2 min mark on a dummy with my current gear. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1581404/

I'm also a real hater of the current relic questline so I can't say I wanna spend even more millions on a perfect crit/det zeta when I already have the dw daggers...

Edit: did another and got to about 630 over 4 1/2 but still want thoughts on crafted being worth it or not. I also am curious as to fuma vs raiton, I use 1 fuma in my opener but use raiton every time after that.

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It's not worth it if you have very heavy mudra lag. The dps increase of the crafted items (afaik the only crafted BiS pieces post updated stat weights are head and belt) is very minimal as it is and is more about min/maxing than a noticable gain. This however doesn't work out in a laggy scenario, since the lag will dictate your dps more than any BiS crafted piece could ever do.

edit: regarding fuma vs raiton there was a link to a jp blog post, and after translating it the conclusion said that fuma is the better choice in all scenarios except for when foes is up, no matter how good your latency is. I for myself am handling it like this for a long time now since my mudra lag is very noticable.

Not quite; the recommendation was to Raiton with Foe or without Dancing Edge / Storm's Eye up, Shuriken otherwise (which is a majority of the time). And I wouldn't take it as gospel truth for now, even if it's just fine as a guideline (Always Be Casting). It's months old, a bit behind current knowledge (and by that I mean things I know):

- It's built from an assumption of 2s GCD and at this point we know better than to bother with that much skill speed. This would exaggerate how much clipping you get, downplaying Raiton.
- Considers slashing-type debuff to be a 11.1% damage buff (it's demonstrably 10% for NIN and DRG, and I see no reason to suspect MNK would be an exception). This would slightly overemphasize the damage contributed by the normal rotation and Shuriken.
- Trick Attack is not considered. You use Trick Attack, don't you?

Yup. Came here to say that as well. With my Ninja Model, Ration > Fuma all the time, except in the opening burst where a Fuma would allow one additional ability in TA duration at around 2.05 GDC.

It really sucks being i130 and ripping aggro off of tanks easily during farm content. What's the use of having all of this power and you can't even use it?

The answer is:

Your tanks are garbage and need to learn to snap aggro.

How would that explain my testing earlier this year of purely bootshine spams with/without dk; and the with dk values being higher by 11% or so? Am i just mathing it wrong?

(not to disprove you guys, its simply a question)

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Originally Posted by Odowla

Am i just mathing it wrong?

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I ain't seen your math, but I seen mine!

I used max/min testing to ensure the values I compared were accurate to within ±0.5 HP and high potency skills to make sure there was a significant difference.

Is there a recommended BiS for nin as of 2.55?

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

I ain't seen your math, but I seen mine!

I used max/min testing to ensure the values I compared were accurate to within ±0.5 HP and high potency skills to make sure there was a significant difference.

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[EDIT] Found my Forums post on it; here it is

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Originally Posted by Odowla

10% Resistance reduction is 11% more damage, is how the math works out. Twin Snakes is 10% flat, Dragon Kick is 11%. DK > TS.

It's not if the tank moves the boss in such a way that you miss one, or if you have barely enough skillspeed to do 5 gcds, a slight hiccup of your connection can cause you to miss as well.

Edit: Here's adding some values to that claim, since I might as well show some numbers if we're talking %'s.

Here's bootshine spam for 3:00 without any buffs.
http://i.gyazo.com/40369cea68610a1fb8a0db5b225f3844.png
Average bootshine hit: 362
Average Autoattack: 198

This one is the same, but with Twinsnakes. (Note: Crit Rate was around 5% lower, so numbers are slightly skewed; however, the math still works.)
http://i.gyazo.com/ae6fcbced1b0e8c70d340385a111ecf1.png
Average Bootshine hit: 375
Average Autoattack: 215

This one is with Dragon Kick being fed from another monk.
http://i.gyazo.com/83d7ea9cdd69f7a97ca2a979263fca7f.png
Average Bootshine hit: 395
Average Autoattack: 219

To be perfectly honest with you, the autoattack numbers are the more accurate numbers.

Anyways, the Average is higher with DK, which just proves what I said - DK > Twin Snakes, and that's why you want to put up DK First - it is the bigger buff.

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The things that come to mind are that the min-hit on your Twin Snakes test is almost the same as the min-hit on your un-buffed test (If it was only your first unavoidable one, that's a hell of a coincidence, but it should be excluded from the sample nonetheless), and crits should either be removed from consideration or divided by 1.5.

Sample sizes appear a little small, too, but if I remember my napkin math correctly it should be sufficient for 99% confidence that it is one or the other.

BiS Sets for ilvl 130 as of patch 2.55

I'm late to this party, but I've been told that some people here might find this useful. Below is a link to a spreadsheet I was working on that lists several different "Best in Slot (BiS)" options.

The different sets vary depending on what gear you may have available and different types of foods. Some of these different options include various pieces of crafted gear, or taking into account that you may not have the Dreadwyrm Ring of Aiming.

Link to Shasta's BiS Spreadsheet

No, I will not be actively checking this thread in order to update my spreadsheet so don't bother arguing with me about it. Feel free to discuss it among yourselves.

P.S. If you were curious, I used very similar melds to some of the gear that Chloro Cradle wears, with slight changes to the rings that I found to be more optimal.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

The things that come to mind are that the min-hit on your Twin Snakes test is almost the same as the min-hit on your un-buffed test (If it was only your first unavoidable one, that's a hell of a coincidence, but it should be excluded from the sample nonetheless), and crits should either be removed from consideration or divided by 1.5.

Sample sizes appear a little small, too, but if I remember my napkin math correctly it should be sufficient for 99% confidence that it is one or the other.

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Pretty much - if you are going to use averages and use both crits/hits without normalising crit rate then a sample size of 70 is way too low. Assuming 5% crit rate - your sample size for max hits is 3-4 hits.
If you look at your max/min damage for non-crit attacks you'll probably find them to be exactly the same.