Please buff Succor.

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Originally Posted by twinklover

If sch could cross class medica from conjurer they would be perfect and would need no buffs except some tweaks to faerie ai and bugged pet commands/ui.
Honestly i would be fine with letting whm cross class Aetherflow too.
I think it would balance the two classes better.

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Homogenizing isn't the answer. Then a whm is just a sch without any of their tools, a couple of cooldowns, and Aetherflow... for mana... without all of the Aetherflow SCH abilities.

SCH would just be a whm with a pet and a bunch of other types of shielding.

They need to fix SCH according to the scholar design, not a lazy bandaid fix that erodes class identity.

They need to fix pet UI... and then probably look at some of the pet CDs. 30 seconds seems way too long for the pet based ae heal...

I'm a scholar and I say no - this would unbalance the class. Consider two things:

1) Scholar is designed to be forward thinking, that's why our shields work well.
2) Scholar has MASSIVE sustain.
3) Scholar manages aggro far better than WHM.

I get the feeling people get disappointed by Succor on Titan HM, perhaps with good reason. However, the key to a good scholar isn't about micromanagement it's about knowing what's coming and being proactive. Succor isn't only good for healing, you have the shield which is an effective +200 HP vs. any HP gear check. Thus, late phase Titan HM you should have Succor shields on everyone PRIOR to stomps and then have another proc go off DURING stomps.

Let the WHM be the reactive players, they have the throughput for not properly planning each turn and counter. Yes, I am implying that SCH is the harder of the two healer roles to play. That doesn't make them underpowered.

Also, keep in mind that all SCH buffs are one aggro counter and done. Thus, you can prepare for engages with shields prior to aggro even being considered. WHM cannot do that as well (Regen will pull aggro instantly).

Priority for SCH is fixing the pets and our control over them. They NEED to stop the fairy from wasting all our cooldowns all the time and allow macro pet commands (my bar is full enough as it is).

Secondly, I think an acceptable buff to Succor would be an additional skill : Shield Buster : cleanse all existing Adlo shields and convert the remaing shield value into a heal. Costs 1 (or 2) aether stack.
The Aetherflow requisite would prevent this skill from being OP and spammable. It'd give SCH at least some burst capability in a pinch and it would fit the theme pretty well, considering we have something similar for DPS in the guise of Bane.

I believe this would be an elegant and easy fix to the issue at hand.

None of that makes ANY sense. The fairy is not the SCH's primary problem, at least not through Titan HM. I think a lot of people are using weird fairy AI as an excuse for being a subpar healer.

Shields are effectively HP, so why would you need a skill to transform that into actual HP? In most battles where you are forced into using Succor, there's enough AoE damage to soak that up before the 30s CD. I can't think of any situations where I'd waste an Aetherflow counter for something that pointless.

Bane copies certain DoTs to surrounding enemies (low range). How is that similar at all to your idea? Furthermore, Succor shields are roughly 200-300. Even if you were able to double cast that on top of a Succor channel (which you can't) - that's hardly a "spike".

I'm at a loss for words, how do you not know your class?

Actually, I was merely talking about how 2 SCH can't stack succor shields, wasting half of the cast, which in turn makes SCH/SCH in a raid less desirable. Didn't mean to imply to use it ALL the time, beause that would indeed be pointless.

I also agree on pre-casting Succor vs Titan's AoE. I already use that technique in any Boss AoE situation (or Adlo in single target situations). Once again, not the situation I was talking about, but perhaps I should've been more clear on that. I felt thematically, it'd fit. Shrug, guess not.

A critted Adloquium shield would translate in 'some' spike healing though. But feel free to make a guide to teach us lesser beings the finer intricacies of being a SCH.

SCH is pro-active, WHM is reactive. I get it. Simple as that. If the fairy (or it's control) is not the SCH primary problem, what is then?

Well, first off -two SCH players in one party is just a bad situation. You can limp along most of the game in the 8mans like that, but its seriously subpar.

Why does SCH need to have a problem? Up through Titan HM, I don't see many glaring issues. Yeah, the fairy is a little weird. No, I don't particularly mind that is. That hasn't been the hitch in my progression.

The SCH throughput seems like it sucks, and it will suck - if you aren't getting the shields to soak any damage.

Wait... why do you guys think succor sucks? You're comparing it to the White Mage's tool kit... which is really different from Scholars.

Are you having trouble keeping people up in AoE fights? I've never had a problem. When large AoE is about to hit I succor to pre-shield, then evaluate hitpoints, if my faerie can top everyone before the next AoE I let her do it while I focus the tank, if not I cast another Succor to heal/shield the next wave of damage.

Succor would suck if we didn't have a faerie helping us heal our party. If they gave us the potency of a White mage in addition to our faerie heals don't you think that would be a little strong? You have to evaluate the toolkit as a whole.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

None of that makes ANY sense. The fairy is not the SCH's primary problem, at least not through Titan HM. I think a lot of people are using weird fairy AI as an excuse for being a subpar healer.

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For the most part, yes it is the primary problem. Many people don't consider the fairy's other tools besides embrace when it comes to healing and utility because of bad UI for pet control, since most of the time, that fairy will use her cooldowns when you don't want/need them, and they're not ready when you do.

This is the main reason why people don't bring up whispering dawn as part of SCH aoe healing power; it's on the fairy with a minute long cooldown.

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Shields are effectively HP, so why would you need a skill to transform that into actual HP?

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Because the most important times you need an AOE heal are between massive AOE where you want to heal people up as fast as possible, and requires speed and attention. Succor as a heal is half as good as a WHM's most basic AOE heal spell. The shield doesn't stack, and is only good for the one instance of preshielding, and initial damage. In any other situation one would want to use an AOE heal, and succor is your only go-to, half of its potential is wasted, yet you spend the same MP and time as a WHM using medica to be half as useful.

If AOE damage was consistent DOT like AV's first boss, I'd be ok with succor as is since the shield would prove useful between casts, and I'd get my MP's worth from semi-consecutive casts, but that's not the case.

Casting succor once as a minor heal+ preshield, and then once more after the hit is fine. You're getting your MP's worth out of it. But chaincasting it to heal people up between AOE's is putting half of succor to waste, since AOE's usually aren't sustained DOT like AV's first boss, so single target healing is sadly the most efficient use of MP between AOEs. Either way, SCHs heal AOE damage off about half as fast in WHMs in these AOE scenarios when it's actually important. No SCH strength makes up for this.

Succor is good before, and for the first time after the AOE damage hits. Beyond that, where AOE healing with speed matters, it's a half a medica for the same MP cost.

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Originally Posted by Sebastianaru

Succor would suck if we didn't have a faerie helping us heal our party. If they gave us the potency of a White mage in addition to our faerie heals don't you think that would be a little strong? You have to evaluate the toolkit as a whole.

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No one here is asking for medica ii, cure iii, regen, benediction, stackable shields, or a nerf to WHM regen stacking, so... no, SCH's wouldn't be too strong, and WHMx2 would still be better than SCHx2 in every way even if SCHs got medica tomorrow. That and there's still the matter of the pet UI.

There are a few changes SCH could stand to receive. Won't talk about pet ai, it's been covered. Everyone knows it is broken and fixes are needed, like a toggle feature for fairy skills. But here are some ideas to throw out there.

Succor doesn't need a potency buff, but rather a mechanical change. Succor could remain at its current 150 potency heal/shield and work fine if they did something like the next Succor cast on a target that is shielded (from a succor spell) to consume the shield and add the shield value to the new succor's healing that is being cast. In other words say I cast succor and it heals for 200 and shields for 200, casting another succor on a target that has a succor shield up consumes the shield and adds that 200 point shield to the new succors healing to make it look like 200h/200s -> 400h/200s. That would give us the AoE heal we so desperately need while remain unique and different from a WHM.

Eos should have her regen spell cd dropped to 30 seconds.

Another change we could stand changes to Selene's buffs. Currently all they do is add 30% spell/skill speed based on your skill/spell speed stat TO your spell/skill speed stats. If you or the players being buffed haven't heavily invested in spell/skill speed stats, Selene is complete garbage. What I would rather see from her is a true 30% haste buff that has both skill and spell speeds rolled into one handy spell on say a 2 or 3 minute CD. The now empty slot she has could then be turned into a single target resource regeneration buff that is uncastable on the owner of the fairy and restores the resource the target is lowest on. Also, scrap her Embrace and instead make it an atk the does splash healing based on the dmg it deals to targets near whatever she atked. Obviously make it a weakish atk/heal. I have no idea what to make of her interrupt. Haven't had a need to use it and the CD on it is rather hefty so dunno what to make of it. But anyway, she is a utility fairy, lets make her utilitarian shall we?

And last but not least, can these damn fairies be put on a completely separate GCD from us?

At the very least, they need to add a toggle for autocast on pets. You should be able to toggle off pet casting of abilities to reserve those for when you want to use them.

If you toggled off the pet AE heal (just one example), that would at least give you a readily available group heal in addition to your other abilities, although it would be a 30 second CD- which again seems kind of long to me.

A logical management system with pet abilities would open up all of the pet abilities as "secondary" abilities available to SCH in a meaningful way. With that fixed, it would be more useful to re-evaluate the complete toolkit to get a better picture of the class.

Right now spastic AI and pet commands foul up the availability of abilities, which are being factored into the SCH toolkit as a whole... which may or may not be meaningful, due to pet issues.