I thought it was against the rules to predict stuff here? I am pretty sure there will be Gil sinks, just as I'm sure SE have thought about every little thing and avoided possible money making schemes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia
Jesus lmao, I am not saying the situation is fact, I am saying the Math is fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferth
The FACT: If item prices reduce only 1/5th of what they are now, you've lost a 4th of your gil, WEATHER THIS WILL HAPPEN OR NOT IS NOT FACT, THE AMOUNT LOST IS.
Please say you understand this, Nothing of what I am saying is saying what will happen is fact, my facts are the illustration of past events which HAVE happened, and that IF situation X Happens, THE FACT is you lost Y money on that situation. No where am I saying the situation will happen, I PREDICT it will happen.
Let me repeat...
IF the situation, where items do not reduce down to the same ratio of gil reduction, you are losing money. The situation MAY or MAY NOT happen, I never said that is fact. IF the situation occurs that items do not reduce to 1/10th ever, you have lost money.
If SE is taking away my hard work...
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10-08-2012, 03:55 PMviion
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10-08-2012, 04:00 PMwhoopeeragonThen why, may I ask, are you using such a prediction as a base argument for your whole perspective? We are ALL acting on predictions at the moment - why is it that YOUR prediction has to take priority over OURS?Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
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10-08-2012, 04:03 PMviionDo you not know how debates work? Do you not know what beliefs are or perspectives? Should go look it up and you will see why MY belief does not rule out YOURS like YOURS does not rule out MINE.Quote:
Originally Posted by whoopeeragon
Why should your perspective take priority over mine? Ask yourself the same question.............................................................
You predict something will happen, I also predict something will happen, this should be a fair debate. The other 2 guys though do fancy ganging up on me for some signature luls. -
10-08-2012, 04:18 PMwhoopeeragonExcept for the fact that while most of us are debating, you are downright slamming our opinions with your hyperbolical expressions! There's a difference between debating and total disregard for the other side's opinion. Maybe those two are ganging up on you; I don't care, I just think your attitude is a bit off.Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
As for the predictions thing...
For one, my prediction is vague and broad so as to encapsulate as much difference as possible, while you are totally narrowing down on the most hair-breadths of detail as a prediction. As a prediction, you don't want to be as specific as you are right now. Maybe you feel different, but the more specific you go into a prediction, the more likely you'll end up wrong.
Can we agree on a few facts though?
1. Our relative wealth on our characters and retainers WILL REMAIN THE SAME. This takes into account only gear and money ON your character, disregarding all else. We will have LOST gil, but our WEALTH is EQUAL.
2. As a reboot and introduction of new materials, removal of old materials, drop rates, crafting and gathering techniques, the economy will CHANGE and take awhile to adjust. During this, old items transferred over from 1.0 will have a different VALUE due to rarity, uses or vanity.
3. WE are in charge of our money. As such, WE are in charge of the markets. If items do not lower to 1/10th of the price, then it is not US losing money, but the MARKETS being changed due to player intervention. As a result, careful planning of how to spend your gil will help you, no?
4. Just because the value of 10 gil 1.0 is the same as 1 gil ARR, that does not mean that value of ALL items will remain the same. Again, the reboot and introduction of new materials and change in gameplay are all factors.
So it's not just a matter of maths. There are far too many variables to accurately determine whether we are losing, gaining or being level when it comes to the MARKET economics. However, our PERSONAL economics is simple - we will retain the same wealth as before. -
10-08-2012, 04:33 PMviionIf thats how you feel, I feel the same, I feel they are ganging up on me because it is clear they have mega egos (exposed by the signature to point out how stupid another person is) and thus ignoring many of my points and completely mistaking my points to be something its not, I have express my argument for all, I feel they are disregarding all my sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by whoopeeragon
So that is great you think I have opinions with hyperbolical expressions, they do, and you do also.
You then begin to contradict yourself with your points.
Not once did I say 1.0 prices will remain the same, this is why I not bothering to take you seriously because its VERY clear you are doing the exact same thing by trying to state something which I did not express.Quote:
Just because the value of 10 gil 1.0 is the same as 1 gil ARR, that does not mean that value of ALL items will remain the same.
I am expressing prices from 1.0 will not go to 1/10th like our Gil will. This is > my < prediction. -
10-08-2012, 04:34 PMFerth
I'm not ganging up on you with Noctis. It just happens that Noctis and I have been in this debate several times now, and happen to largely agree with each other.
The problem with your debate is that you aren't even clearly arguing from a specific stand point, and you are using hypotheticals and rhetoric claiming they are fact (5 times now, including the last one which is a direct contradiction to your attempt to pass it off as speculative.)
No one ever argued that your math was wrong... just that it wasn't proof.
And it's not proof. Not of anything other than you feel that the greedy underhanded jerks in 2.0 are going to corner the market and make everything ludicrously overpriced.
If you want to believe that, feel free. But my point is those same greedy underhanded jerks can do the same thing right now if they felt like it. The thing stopping it from succeeding right now will still be present and effective after the 2.0 redenomination.
It is entirely possible that for a brief period it will work. The only way to ensure that it doesn't drastically effect you is to be conscientious of it's potential.
But even if it does work for a short period, over time the prices will fall (or maybe even rise.) until they reach a new equillibrium based on the item's supply and demand in the new economy.
You are arguing that the redenomination opens up the opportunity for abuse and I while I concede that the potential is there, I disagree about the degree that it will occur and succeed. -
10-08-2012, 04:39 PMviion-_- I feel like I am hitting my head on a wall when i constantly sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Ferth
Do I have to quote myself when I constantly say that things I am expression are PREDICTIONS, of what i THINK WILL HAPPEN.Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
The only FACTS I have stated are ones that happened in 1.0 (People exploit, prices inflating to multiple amounts their value, Gil exploits). And The fact of what is considered a loss. If items do not go to 1/10th I consider anything over as loss because you are unable to purchase what you could before.
You are acting like I am saying because you can inflate a price 150% now you can in 2.0, I AM NOT, I am saying people will PAY FOR THE INFLATED price, thus they will pay for an item that has not reduced to 1/10th.
Oh and incase you dont get it again.
This is my prediction, of what I expect to happen, NOT FACT. PREDICTION.
We can stand on this then, because you disagree that it will occur and succeed, I think it will occur and people will sell things at a much higher value as a whole.Quote:
You are arguing that the redenomination opens up the opportunity for abuse and I while I concede that the potential is there, I disagree about the degree that it will occur and succeed.
Right now it is impossible in 1.0 to increase the value of all items by x amount (every, single item, as a whole). With 2.0 reduction, this becomes a very serious and possible opportunity, and many people I know are preparing to do this through stocking up on different items.
Thats great you disagree that it will happen, i think it will. -
10-08-2012, 04:44 PMMamba
I have been playing since the very first minute of the release and have nice chunk of gil on all characters...
I wouldn't mind AT ALL if all I had left was my levels and all my gil was taken away from me.
What is this superior complex people seem to have. What are you going to do with 999 mil gil? Seriously?!
PLEASE SE take all currency out of the game, then we wont have problems with having so many gillionaires!
The ones that are lvl 50 on all jobs will soon enough have gil again to start buying stuff and we get rid of the people like OP who will ragequit if their possessions are taken. -
10-08-2012, 04:52 PMwhoopeeragonBut thing is, I really don't see how that constitutes as us 'losing gil'. If the prices change, that is due to the value of that particular item changing because of their changed needs in the new world. Your prediction is correct, but what about potential items that will drop to 1/20th their price because they are no longer needed? We can look at those and say that we're gaining gil....but I don't see how that works either, because they remain in relative value. So I don't particular get how the value of certain items become higher causes us to lose gil.Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
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10-08-2012, 05:01 PMFerth
Go back and reread your posts and count the times you claim your predictions are fact. If people aren't understanding your posts its because you aren't portraying your point accurately.
But really... the meat of the argument is that you believe prices will have a relative uptrend because of the redenomination. I wish there was a nicer way that I could explain how that is a very narrow view, but there really isn't. I concede that there is potential for your prediction to occur. I just don't think you understand how big of a scale the game economies have.
The point you keep trying to make is flawed because it depends on either a monopoly occurring or everyone else being kind of dim.
People will pay what they are willing to pay. That will always be true. For absolutely everyone in 2.0 to suddenly be willing to pay 2-5 times what they pay for items now is an incredibly slim chance. And of the numerous factors that go in to establishing what an item is worth at any given time, the price people ask for it is really one of the smallest. Because for any item worth selling and every person trying to sell it there will be atleast one more person trying to sell theirs first.
Some items may end up worth significantly more in 2.0 than they are in 1.0 But really... what will dictate that won't be the few gougers out there, it will be the demand for the item weighted by it's current supply.
And to finish up. In the medium of text, context is very hard to read. If you are reading my posts as overly hostile, that probably has more to do with you projecting that upon the text.
It's hard not to feel attacked when someone disagrees with you. I understand, sometimes I get carried away, too. But really the only points I've tried to make is mostly that your arguments are kinda on the weak side, and your predictions seem excessively pessimistic.