[dev 1021] [Suggestion] Please consider this SP loss system for Death

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Originally Posted by Thsscks

So why do you still don't want them to add it even if aren't having any disadvantages from it aside from a temporary debuff? And btw a sp loss would still affect you if you weren't rank 50 for that discpline.
It isn't really such an uncommon mechanic to add. It's better than a loss of durability on your equipped items and has more meaning than a temporary debuff.
And really don't you get more satisfaction from completing a tough task when the stakes are high?
Like with gambling, do you get the same satisfaction when you win by going all in with all the money you have than when you just bet 5 dollars (assuming 5 dollars isn't all you have)?
The same is with games, they are more satisfying and involving when you can actually lose something you worked quite a bit for.
It's dull if a temporary debuff is all you get, which you can easily avoid the annoyance of by just doing something else for a couple minutes.

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No the risk vs reward system has no effect on me or my enjoyment. Not even when gambling. When playing Black Jack and roulette I tend to change the odds so they are in my favor and I feel pretty damn good taking the Casino's money. I don't doubt that a harsher death penalty makes it feel better for you and some others but there are just as many that don't feel the same way as you.

I'd rather Lose SP/EXP than have to spend time repairing gear.

AXE Durability, get it outta there.

Why? Cause I can fix my SP/EXP loss by fighting instead of snoozing while trying my hardest to level up 4 crafts to support my fickle gaming nature (wanting to level every class there is that's not /snooze crafting).


OR!!!!

Stop being silly and merge these crafts. GLD/ARM/Blacksmith= Metalurgist etc..

I personally won't take this game seriously until the durability system is gone or completely addressed by lowering the level it takes to repair all gear to 15. Give crafters other means of making gil by putting awesome enhancements on current existing weapons, customizing them in other ways etc; adding +'s to them.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

I'd rather Lose SP/EXP than have to spend time repairing gear.

AXE Durability, get it outta there.

Why? Cause I can fix my SP/EXP loss by fighting instead of snoozing while trying my hardest to level up 4 crafts to support my fickle gaming nature (wanting to level every class there is that's not /snooze crafting).


OR!!!!

Stop being silly and merge these crafts. GLD/ARM/Blacksmith= Metalurgist etc..

I personally won't take this game seriously until the durability system is gone or completely addressed by lowering the level it takes to repair all gear to 15. Give crafters other means of making gil by putting awesome enhancements on current existing weapons, customizing them in other ways etc; adding +'s to them.

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Do we take durability loss on death? I thought it was from use only.

I am for SP loss from death. It should be % based somewhere around 5%. I also support the idea of buying it back. However i propose this:

We don't buy it back with gil OR anima.

Instead, you begin to collect guild marks at a much earlier level then we do now. You then can choose to spend guild marks at the guild to buy back lost sp. Keep all the abilities/traits at 20+, but make reclaiming sp available to any rank, even members too low to join the guild.

edit : this would most likely call for a change in receiving guild marks (more often but less at a time maybe?)

It seems like I am a little late to the discussion of this thread considering no one has responded in 9 days or so, but that has never stopped me from starting up a debate again...

That being said, I think that the current death penalty system just is not interesting enough. I die, have a few minutes of weakness and I am good to go. No big deal, I can grab a drink and come back when its over.

I think that a new process should be implemented that is similar to that "'ol injury I got back in '72." You die, and a doctor "moogle" shows up and says something along the line of "I tried my best but I could not fix your injury at x location. You will have to deal with the pain for quite some time." Then for the next 30 minutes or so, you have like a bum knee that causes you to be unable to move for a few seconds. This injury would occur randomly during that time frame.

This could be expanded so that the more times you die, the more "war wounds" you have. For instance you could get a bad shoulder, causing you to miss an attack randomly or a bad back that would cause you to paralyze in pain. The final injury could be a head wound, that would cause periodic blindness, confusion, etc.

I think that this could definitely add some laughs to the battle scene.

Any thoughts?

Seeing how the casual dislike this idea how about this

When you die you get 1mil gil, You get 50 rank point which you can use to level up any class. Oh and if you die 10times under 1mil you get 1 rare item in the game :)

All joking aside i pretty much give up hope trying to come up with idea that casual and hardcore can enjoy Casual are too hard headed ppl and hardcore well you know there hardcore ppl lol.

Very true Zenaku, it pretty much is impossible to please everyone. There is always going to be someone that doesn't like a particular aspect of a game or in life for that matter.

Hmm the way I see it, we have two choices now... Grab a "decider" (George Bush anyone?) that makes the choices for us or flip a coin to see which side to join for a particular aspect.

If extremism is the way to go, I guess genocide would work as well... but that seems like a vicious cycle - annihilate the haters for a particular aspect... then you have the people complaining about that, which you would then have to exterminate, etc, etc.

Honestly as a casual player, I could care less if there was a death penalty or not... pretty much apathetic on it, with the exception of de-leveling as that would just piss me off. Get a new ability and then have it taken away??? Sounds like a complete tease if you ask me.

No thanks.

First of all, DoL/DoH would be totally screwed for it since they're trying not to fight anyways and can't really fight and they have a harder time leveling up due to numerous materials required for DoH and the lack of G5 nodes for some of the DoL.

Second, if you lose 5-10% of your SP (or XP?) you're losing more than you would likely have obtained from that monster. That's bad design, losing more than you gain. It'd be especially annoying considering how many mobs during levequests in mid-level areas are interspersed with the normal monsters (such as those damn Level 30+ goats near Camp Horizon!) It'd be even worse during the Easter event if they're all like this, since sometimes random high level aggro monsters are waiting for you around corners in caves (I died like this twice looking for Spriggans near Camp Horizon :( Stupid level 40 aggro bomb)

Third, there's no reason for it. There are much better ways to penalize players for dying, such as durability loss on equipment (perhaps lower the normal rate of durability loss and increase loss from death to 10-20%?), loss of shards for DoH, increased duration of weakness (5+ minutes), loss of gil...how about solo death for Levequests is auto-failure and you can't be revived without skills if in a Party during levequests? Also lower the levequest timer for Battlecraft; I usually take 3-5 minutes for them, even if they're Rank 20 (I'm Rank 16) and I always wonder why there's 30 minutes if I can solo it in a sixth of the time (maybe 6 minutes per Star?)

ANYWAYS...the point is that losing SP/EXP for dying feels awful and even if you can buy it back, especially with Anima, it feels horrible and there isn't much of a redeeming factor...and a lot of the time, deaths don't occur from your own mistakes unless you're very clearly wandering around in an area levels higher than you. Anima already takes way too long to regenerate and adding it as an option to buy back SP/EXP would make it even more...I don't know the word for it...terrible feeling, I guess? As for the buyback with gil option, gil is too abundant so if it was too little it wouldn't be a penalty at all and if it was "just right" for higher levels, lower level players wouldn't be able to afford it. Tacked onto that, Ranks 20-50 are already an incredibly slow grind...I think what the game doesn't need is a way for it to take away your hard work and have you grind it all back again (because face it, the game is a long grind right now).

EDIT: Or if you want to be a jerk about it, you could make it automatically have that class jump to the next threshold.

Die 1x: lose 5-10% sp and the same (number not % exp). This can be recovered via killing monsters.
2x (while weakened): More sp loss, gil loss.
3x: If you are in a party the other members can loot a random piece of your gear for the inconvenience you are causing them.
4x: Your lose your character. It is put up for auction to someone who can play it properly, since you obviously can't.

I'm being somewhat facetious here, but I do think there should be sp loss. As for crafters who die on the way to a leve, you should be traveling on a DoW class anyway. The story line quests need to go to hard fights that require a party, anyway, so you would need to have at least one DoW class leveled. I personally don't think leveling crafts to 50 when your highest fighting class is R2 should be a completely viable option. If someone wants to do that in a monster killing based game, the devs shouldn't go out of their way to make it convenient.

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Originally Posted by Yikghigi

It seems like I am a little late to the discussion of this thread considering no one has responded in 9 days or so, but that has never stopped me from starting up a debate again...

That being said, I think that the current death penalty system just is not interesting enough. I die, have a few minutes of weakness and I am good to go. No big deal, I can grab a drink and come back when its over.

I think that a new process should be implemented that is similar to that "'ol injury I got back in '72." You die, and a doctor "moogle" shows up and says something along the line of "I tried my best but I could not fix your injury at x location. You will have to deal with the pain for quite some time." Then for the next 30 minutes or so, you have like a bum knee that causes you to be unable to move for a few seconds. This injury would occur randomly during that time frame.

This could be expanded so that the more times you die, the more "war wounds" you have. For instance you could get a bad shoulder, causing you to miss an attack randomly or a bad back that would cause you to paralyze in pain. The final injury could be a head wound, that would cause periodic blindness, confusion, etc.

I think that this could definitely add some laughs to the battle scene.

Any thoughts?

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This is a good idea.

@ Zenaku
Just stop trying to say that only Casuals dislike harsh death penalties. I spend far too much time playing to be considered a casual and yet I am not in favor of the harsh death penalty. It's just a straw man. You're better than that.