Counterpoint to all the Debbie Downers lately...

FF14 Forums are like WoW's the same 50 people who go on years of badmouthing a game they are addicted too and will never be happy. The only legit compaint i have seen on the forums in the 2 years i been here is healing dps is boring.

There there... at least it's one of those reading that keeps people entertained while the server's down :p

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

The irony of you complaining about poorly-written characters when your own perceived pinnacle of character development is hackneyed stereotypes of genteel, feminine princess types with flowing hair and pretty dresses and buff knights with beards who so enamour everyone with their raw masculinity that no one dares mock or criticism them. Effectively walking masses of tired and archaic tropes drenched in soft misogyny and more flat and underdeveloped than the paper they're written on.



The thing is, issues like Y'shtola's writing can never properly be discussed under such circumstances because they're not truly the matter at hand. While aforementioned posters may occasionally veil it in more respectable concerns like that of her being two dimensional or bland, the truth is, what they're actually complaining about is the crime of 1) a woman daring to be outspoken against a manly man man and 2) her not being perceived as hot enough to attempt to justify it. Sexist nonsense, but for some reason, others choose not to see it and steadfastly maintain he has some sort of genuine point to be made.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O43CfuqryF0

"A god complex: An unshakable belief characterized by consistently inflated feelings of personal ability, privilege, or infallibility." It's the entire basis of his personality, and I'm a little flummoxed as to what you would consider a God complex, if not that.

And when "but he could force his attentions on them!" is your best line of defence for a character, and claim to find toxic masculinity and all the misery, violence and control it engenders a compliment, perhaps it's time to rethink your argument And possibly yourself. And your life. Preferably far away from me.

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Idk what you find genuinely corcerning, I brought up rape to show that he could be far worse considering he’s a tribal warlord, and that the way he actually acts is actually fairly dignified, he always takes no for an answer, and what you call “begrudgingly” is a natural response for anyone who was rejected by another person. Everyone would feel disappointed over that even if they would respect the other person’s wishes if they are a healthy normal individual, it’s just as natural for Magnai.

And yes, what people call toxic masculinity nowadays is a far cry from anything too harmful. It is necessary to an extent, even.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Preferably far away from me.

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Your terms are acceptable.

Can't believe I'm somewhat in agreement with Aveyond.

Not about the "Little Sun" scene, no. I don't think there was anything wrong with that. It was guy-with-God-complex-gets-humbled. Business as usual. What I dislike is how the playerbase and Endwalker went about building on that. The playerbase does its usual thing where they wear a meme out until it's the social equivalent of a horse cadaver. And Endwalker, for as much as I liked it, really just drew Magnai into the story just to... make more fun of him? While I thought Y'shtola's one-time jab and Sadu's mockery was funny, I really don't like the fact that we're basically forcing the character to languish in that uncomfortable spot where he's just "REMEMBER LITTLE SUN? HAHAHA REMEMBER LITTLE SUN??? WE REMEMBER." Allow him to grow as a character rather than just reducing him to a walking meme or don't involve him in the story at all. It's not charming and at some point it's starting to look like some person's outlet for beating in on some straw-(literal)man version of their bad experiences with pushy men in the dating scene or something. It's jarring, it's awkward.

Magnai really isn't that horrible. He's immature, brash and self-aggrandizing, but I think the community's hatred for him is way overblown, especially considering what sorts of other characters get fellated here all the time. I'd much rather see him develop, because it's clear that he can. Instead, he's just forced to stagnate for the purposes of being a vehicle for this tired meme.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

And Endwalker, for as much as I liked it, really just drew Magnai into the story just to... make more fun of him? While I thought Y'shtola's one-time jab and Sadu's mockery was funny, I really don't like the fact that we're basically forcing the character to languish in that uncomfortable spot where he's just "REMEMBER LITTLE SUN? HAHAHA REMEMBER LITTLE SUN??? WE REMEMBER."

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Not exactly surprising coming from EW, the expansion of hollow fanservice and milking what was successful way past their prime. (Like Emet-Selch, or Shadowbringers' entire final act.)

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

The irony of you complaining about poorly-written characters when your own perceived pinnacle of character development is hackneyed stereotypes of genteel, feminine princess types with flowing hair and pretty dresses and buff knights with beards who so enamour everyone with their raw masculinity that no one dares mock or criticism them. Effectively walking masses of tired and archaic tropes drenched in soft misogyny and more flat and underdeveloped than the paper they're written on.



The thing is, issues like Y'shtola's writing can never properly be discussed under such circumstances because they're not truly the matter at hand. While aforementioned posters may occasionally veil it in more respectable concerns like that of her being two dimensional or bland, the truth is, what they're actually complaining about is the crime of 1) a woman daring to be outspoken against a manly man man and 2) her not being perceived as hot enough to attempt to justify it. Sexist nonsense, but for some reason, others choose not to see it and steadfastly maintain he has some sort of genuine point to be made.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O43CfuqryF0

"A god complex: An unshakable belief characterized by consistently inflated feelings of personal ability, privilege, or infallibility." It's the entire basis of his personality, and I'm a little flummoxed as to what you would consider a God complex, if not that.

And when "but he could force his attentions on them!" is your best line of defence for a character, and claim to find toxic masculinity and all the misery, violence and control it engenders a compliment, perhaps it's time to rethink your argument And possibly yourself. And your life. Preferably far away from me.

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I have never agreed with someone on the forum as much as I do with your post right now.

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

Why are you derailing the topic? We’re talking about Magnai, not this unrelated dude you’re describing.

But on a serious note, yes, arrogance is indeed, a character flaw which is why I’m saying he’s not perfect, although you overplay it with the “god complex” accusations, it’s nowhere near those levels. And no, him searching for him nhama and asking women out in a confident way is not a flaw. He’s a tribal warlord, for God’s sake, and still acting rather gentlemanly for this status. If he truly believed himself entitled and didn’t care for what others think, he wouldn’t have asked those women at all. As for the “toxic masculinity”…I see this term used far too often to denigrate masculinity and masculine men in general, so I usually see it as a compliment when characters get accused of it. I’d take a man like Magnai over the likes of Alphinaud or post-5.3 G’raha any time of the day.

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I feel similarly. FFXIV as of late as had an issue with pushing subversive nonsense forward as opposed to more traditional tastes. We're supposed to pretend like femroes are attractive yet they're the least played race/gender combination. Male character design and mannerisms are another issue entirely. G'raha Tia will forever look like an annoying school girl to me with the way he looks and behaves. Doesn't seem like that will be remedied anytime soon either.

Anyway it's clear that there are people who clearly did not play the same game I did or as I mentioned earlier came up with their own imaginary way that things played out. Mary sue yas queens like Y'shtola are annoying. Seeing characters like that treat other people badly just doesn't make for anything I care to see. It's the same sort of patronizing way that a sector of the playerbase treats men outside the game too so I'm not surprised they don't see an issue with her behavior and instead try to cast the more well-adjusted individual as the bad guy.

But hey, looks like they won FFXIV, and I won FFXVI. I get to experience Jill "I will live to protect you" and her arc going from captured and being forced to fight as a weapon of war, taking revenge against her captors, and playing an active role in FFXVI's main plot + making actual sacrifices over an overhyped librarian whose only notable characteristics are how many time's she's died and come back to life. You know like how actual heroines are supposed to behave, assuming they're written well. We haven't had any of those in FFXIV for a while now.

As for the men I guess the people who for whatever reason like seeing G'raha Tia stuff his face with hamburgers while fawning over their oc can keep him. Now that Varis, Hien, Magnai, Aymeric, Heavensward Estinien, and several other decent male FFXIV characters are no longer in the picture there's not much to look forward on that front either. Zero was apparently designed to resemble a "handsome man" but she's clearly a woman so that's neither here nor there. I think FFXVI has good variety on that front with its male cast with something for everyone, pretty boys like Dion, middle of the road guys like Clive, and older more gruff men like Cid and Barnabas.

Can't wait to see what reactions of some of the posters in this thread will have to Barnabas and Benedikta's relationship in particular, given what's been alluded to in her conversation with Cid prior to their duel. Maybe then their made up headcanons about toxic warlords might actually come true. Magnai however does not fit the description with which they've taken so many creative liberties.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As for the men I guess the people who for whatever reason like seeing G'raha Tia stuff his face with hamburgers while fawning over their oc can keep him.

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https://i.imgur.com/SFsI02E.gif

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

https://i.imgur.com/SFsI02E.gif

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I will never tire of Happy Gr'a and his burger. The man deserves it after everything he has done.

I think the game is good, not perfect so criticisms are to be expected and should be posted. Of course you can't expect the devs to read every single post and keep constantly making changes, the relic step alone would be a nightmare to balance for people who want the specific big grind and people that don't. That said if a problem keeps being repeated over and over here then maybe it will be addressed and the game will be better for it.

The main reason why I think you made this thread is while complaining about a game isn't inherently annoying, the poor social skills a lot of forum user have when doing so makes them come across as needless whining even if they have a good point buried in their wall of text.