Summoner changes that should happen onto 7.0

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Before everyone gets all on the DoT train, there was a technical reason SE was trying to limit the number of DoTs jobs have access to. There is a hard limit on the number of effects a monster is able to have on it at any given time. It was found out during Eureka and Hunts that this limit was being hit and players were left unable to land effects. For jobs like SMN this meant if you missed the window to get your DoTs in before the limit was hit, you were missing a large portion of your DPS. It is incredibly unlikely that regular content mobs will have this problem but still, jobs should be able to function in all content.

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DOT limits on field content is a legit problem but that’s also because some jobs just have pointless residual DOT’s they don’t need, like do GNB and PLD both need 2 DOT’s, NIN still had wheeling thrust at the time, deaths design is just the generic melee 10% damage buff and really doesn’t need to be an enemy effect etc

There is totally room for SMN DOT’s back even in field content, they just need to stop giving other classes pointless DOT’s they don’t need

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Before everyone gets all on the DoT train, there was a technical reason SE was trying to limit the number of DoTs jobs have access to. There is a hard limit on the number of effects a monster is able to have on it at any given time. It was found out during Eureka and Hunts that this limit was being hit and players were left unable to land effects. For jobs like SMN this meant if you missed the window to get your DoTs in before the limit was hit, you were missing a large portion of your DPS. It is incredibly unlikely that regular content mobs will have this problem but still, jobs should be able to function in all content.

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Both WoW and GW2 had issues with debuff limits at some point. It took some time but they were able to increase the limit. I don't see why FFXIV couldn't do the same, especially seeing how there's a lot less going on in FFXIV compared to those games in regards to debuffs. The alternative solution to this problem of removing an entire style of play from the game seems ridiculous to me.

Some of you are asking DOT to be brought back. I wonder how is DOT fun? I personally think the direction should be focusing more on summons.

1. Differentiate demis more - The phoenix combo in 5.x was very satisfying to use.

2. Remove everlasting flight. Change Rekindle to restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members.

3. Seperate Deathflare and Rekindle from Astral Flow. Make them a new button that we can use anytime even after demis have left. After you summon Bahamut, the button changes to Deathflare and you have 60 seconds to use it before Summoning Phoenix changes the button to Rekindle which lasts until Summoning Bahamut.

4. Change Crimson Strike whereby using Ruby Rite/Catastrophe wont break the combo.

5. Give each primal another big attack like deathflare to use (new button).

Why shouldn’t people want summoner to play like summoner instead of a budget mage? I don’t think the addition of another ogcd will make it any better, part of the reason new summoner is so flaccid is the complete lack of any ability to mess up or optimise. It would be like if you removed gauge management from warrior or samurai and offered nothing in return. Oh wait.

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Originally Posted by Ayden

Some of you are asking DOT to be brought back. I wonder how is DOT fun? I personally think the direction should be focusing more on summons.

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I'm not advocating for giving SMN dots here but why couldn't they have summon-related dots? Just a very rough example of how it could work that I think would be fun:

Say you have a cycle of 3 basic summons per minute with 5 basic summons to choose from (ignoring demis for this example). One of those summons can apply a minute long dot and besides that offers only utility and no damage. A second summon can extend the duration of said dot and has more damage options.

That alone would offer more depth than current SMN and the existence of the dot ability forces the use of different summons each cycle rather than always using the most powerful one as with old SMN or using all of them every cycle as with new SMN. The more complications you add (whether they be debuffs, buffs, or cds) the more interesting the job becomes, to a point.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

...Part of the reason new summoner is so flaccid is the complete lack of any ability to mess up or optimise. It would be like if you removed gauge management from warrior or samurai and offered nothing in return. Oh wait.

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

Say you have a cycle of 3 basic summons per minute with 5 basic summons to choose from (ignoring demis for this example). One of those summons can apply a minute long dot and besides that offers only utility and no damage. A second summon can extend the duration of said dot and has more damage options.

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I'm not sure about summon choices because people will always choose the 3 that do the most dmg and ignore the other 2. Moreover a DOT summon might make the rotation more rigid as you must summon it at a particular time. However, a longer CD summon might do the trick.

Option 1: Longer CD summon

When the CD is up, you will be able to summon 1 new primal in place of 1 base primal, and do some cool and more powerful abilities/spells


Example:

Summon Odin
Summons Odin and orders it to execute Shin-Zantetsuken.
Effect: Deals damage to target and all enemies within 5 yalms with a potency of 1000 for the first enemy, and 60% less for all remaining enemies
Additional Effect: Grants a 3-GCD combo actions.
Recast: 120s


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Option 2: Aether gauge

You will be given an Aether gauge. When the gauge hits 50, you will be able to summon 1 new primal in place of 1 base primal. In addition, 1 extra new ability/spell will be given to each primal for spending the excess aether in the gauge.


Example:

Summon Odin
Summons Odin and orders it to execute Shin-Zantetsuken.
Effect: Deals damage to target and all enemies within 5 yalms with a potency of 1000 for the first enemy, and 60% less for all remaining enemies
Additional Effect: Grants a 3-GCD combo actions.
Aether Gauge Cost: 50
Recast: 120s

Aether Release (oGCD)
Deals unaspected (or aspected based on primal) damage to target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 250 for the first enemy, and 60% less for all remaining enemies.
Aether Gauge Cost: 25
Recast: 1s

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

I'm not advocating for giving SMN dots here but why couldn't they have summon-related dots? Just a very rough example of how it could work that I think would be fun:

Say you have a cycle of 3 basic summons per minute with 5 basic summons to choose from (ignoring demis for this example). One of those summons can apply a minute long dot and besides that offers only utility and no damage. A second summon can extend the duration of said dot and has more damage options.

That alone would offer more depth than current SMN and the existence of the dot ability forces the use of different summons each cycle rather than always using the most powerful one as with old SMN or using all of them every cycle as with new SMN. The more complications you add (whether they be debuffs, buffs, or cds) the more interesting the job becomes, to a point.

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Please no dots on summoner anymore. Let the next caster be more dot heavy. Blm has a dot. All healers have dots, paladin has a dot and bard has dots. All jobs don’t need dots. I mean technically summoner does have one in the form of slipstream. Let’s just leave it at that.

All they need to do is give the job a bit more depth again. Dots in ffxiv to me are just useless buttons that you press every 30 seconds. If it brought some depth like bard dots use to bring then fine but to have dots just there is useless and does nothing for the job but adds more unnecessary button bloat. Now if the dots actually did something like for example gave a chance to reduce the CD by a few seconds of demi summons then that’s something that’s something. I just don’t want dots for the sake of dots anymore. I can already see bard losing dots in 7.0 because they are absolutely useless now.

They don’t have to not interact, this is a rod they’ve made for their own back or some kind of reverse Midas touch.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

Please no dots on summoner anymore. Let the next caster be more dot heavy. Blm has a dot. All healers have dots, paladin has a dot and bard has dots. All jobs don’t need dots. I mean technically summoner does have one in the form of slipstream. Let’s just leave it at that.

All they need to do is give the job a bit more depth again. Dots in ffxiv to me are just useless buttons that you press every 30 seconds. If it brought some depth like bard dots use to bring then fine but to have dots just there is useless and does nothing for the job but adds more unnecessary button bloat. Now if the dots actually did something like for example gave a chance to reduce the CD by a few seconds of demi summons then that’s something that’s something. I just don’t want dots for the sake of dots anymore. I can already see bard losing dots in 7.0 because they are absolutely useless now.

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“Removes procs from DNC” pls no procs on DNC RDM and BLM already have procs make procs interesting again

Fester that deals more dmg with Bio and Miasma was just bad, especially when dealing with fast dying adds. I'm glad its gone.