Pld buff or War nerf in 1.22?

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

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MRD:

• Rampage: Increases your attack speed, but (significantly) reduces your attack power for each physical attack against you, and restores HP for each critical hit you land. Effect fades upon moving or reuse. Cannot be used simultaneously with Berserk.

WAR:

• Collusion Warmonger: Put on a threatening display, increasing enmity generation and drawing the attacks of the target and nearby enemies while lowering their critical attack rate.

GLD:

• Rage of Halone: Delivers a fivefold melee attack at low accuracy. Generates massive emnity when executed from behind. Combo bonus: Increased Accuracy
  
• Ageis Boon: Blocks the next incoming physical or magic attack and grants HP in proportion to damage taken.

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Now we're getting somewhere. Like'd.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Changes:


MRD:

• Rampage: Increases your attack speed, but (significantly) reduces your attack power for each physical attack against you, and restores HP for each critical hit you land. Effect fades upon moving or reuse. Cannot be used simultaneously with Berserk.

WAR:

• Collusion Warmonger: Put on a threatening display, increasing enmity generation and drawing the attacks of the target and nearby enemies while lowering their critical attack rate.

GLD:

• Rage of Halone: Delivers a fivefold melee attack at low accuracy. Generates massive emnity when executed from behind. Combo bonus: Increased Accuracy
  
• Ageis Boon: Blocks the next incoming physical or magic attack and grants HP in proportion to damage taken.

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That's one of the other problem with pld right there. One of its best dmg moves is never used cause it has a stupid requirement.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

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Shortened, sorry. Actually thought about this some.

Rampage, although I do agree it helps with the paladin movement, I doubt anyone would use this skill and keep their damage up. Seeing as it fades upon moving it will be impossible to get any combos off with it up if you want to keep it up by some chance. Will be totally useless on both sides. As a damage dealer you do not want to decrease your damage and again it fades upon moving.

Warmonger, why does this seem better than collusion? Reason is because collusion may place more enmity on the tank, it still adds hate to the tank. You can also have a better chance at surviving cc's crit 100 ton swing and you can pull more mobs off of people during princess and miser. This in term to me helps keep war tanks on top. Not behind.

Glad skills, agree on rage of halone, do not agree on reduced acc that it has. For Aegis, how long are cast and recast times? Seems its single target only. It also may seem better suited for outmaneuver.

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Originally Posted by zergasaur

Well it depends. War does more dmg in AE. Less on Single. But Even on single, War does a fairly descent amount. Not too far off from Mnk. Not to mention they have the best tanking ability atm.

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Just based on eye-balling my damage as WAR vs. me as DRG against single targets, it seems like DRG blows WAR out of the water, especially if you get to combo freely, though admittedly this is a significant issue for DRG and their long WS chains and low damage combo builders. DRG just builds TP so much faster and, thanks to Power Surge, hits for the same numbers despite a lower damage and shorter delay weapon type. Also, MNK has an even higher single-target DPS than DRG.

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Originally Posted by Nullie

What this guy said? You are what this guy said. You just quoted yourself there you know.

Derp.

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I know who I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

I know who I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!

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Haha, like'd cause you made me laugh. c:

It seems Zantetsuken is pretty dead-set on wanting to nerf WAR which is indeed a horrible, horrible idea. Currently all classes are at about even power in their given role. The only class that is underwhelming compared to the rest is PLD. When only ONE class is underpowered what do you think the solution is? Buff the ONE class that is underpowered or nerf one of the classes that is already balanced? Use your brain.

The best logical solution would be to make it so PLD takes a noticable less amount of damage rendering the 2 WHM build not optimal due to a DPS being able to take the spot of one instead.

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Originally Posted by Frein

Just based on eye-balling my damage as WAR vs. me as DRG against single targets, it seems like DRG blows WAR out of the water, especially if you get to combo freely, though admittedly this is a significant issue for DRG and their long WS chains and low damage combo builders. DRG just builds TP so much faster and, thanks to Power Surge, hits for the same numbers despite a lower damage and shorter delay weapon type. Also, MNK has an even higher single-target DPS than DRG.

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The DD WARs in my LS give the DRGs and MNKs a run for their money. The WARs usually parse a bit under, but not far enough to make us ask them to switch jobs. And their defense/hp let them take top DPS if the fight goes south for any reason.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

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Problem with Rampage is the effect wouldn't build up enough to really hinder WAR's DPS, because the effect resets when Steel Cyclone is used. If anything, Rampage's healing effect is the main reason for using it, kind of making most adjustments to the ability convoluted to begin with.

Warmonger really wouldn't change much either, it just means that DD's/BLM's would have to hold off a few seconds like they do for PLD's in order for WAR to get off a Enmity Combo.

Aegis Boon already does block Magical attacks, but due to shield mechanics it has to be from the front. Though I would welcome an all around magical block with it's active (Imagine blocking Hellfire).

I know I've been hooting and hollering about shield adjustments lately, but that's because I can see that as the best way to really make PLD shine above WAR if done right. Here are some of the ideas I proposed earlier on the PLD forums.

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Needed Change: Rework Damage mitigated formula by Blocks, and make it similar to Parry.

Reason: There is no reason why partial parries can negate NEARLY ALL damage but a block barely reduces anything. As it is, PLD cannot fully Block any attack, so if PLD isn't going to get the benefit of parrying with a shield equipped they should at least have the ability compete in damage negation in this area.

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Needed Change: Give Shields an inherent natural defensive stat.

Reason: There is almost NO DIFFERENCE between a PLD and WAR defensively. When PLD's focus is supposed to keep hate and reduce his overall ability to take damage, you'd naturally expect them to have much better defense.

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Needed Change: Introduce Magic Block to shields, and make it where it will ALWAYS reduce the damage received by that amount (without blocking just to be clear). Another alternative instead of magic damage taken would be to reduce the monsters magic attack potency by said amount in the damage calculation formula.

Reason: Even with the Block adjustment, it only allows PLD to compete with WAR's parry. Even with the defense boost, it's still not separating the jobs defensively enough to make PLD shine against WAR's hefty DPS. With this adjustment there would be a shining difference between the two jobs core capabilities and give PLD at least some competitive edge over the two.

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It doesn't sound like much of an adjustment taking slightly less magical damage and making it where Shield Blocks could actually mitigate damage on par with Parry. But add in the existing abilities like Divine Veils 100% Block rate, you could take little to no physical damage for 33% of the fight that's a MAJOR step up in mitigation over WAR (Not to mention give your WHM's some breathing room to cure other players). The Magic Block and base defense on a shield would only help reduce overall damage taken, but not necessarily make the damage taken over WAR too drastic. Besides, it also means SE doesn't have to rework abilities or traits to incorporate new things like Global mitigation as some have suggested, and Shields have been terribly broken for a while so it would be fixing two issues in the process.

It still doesn't make GLA/PLD preferred on lesser mobs or allows it to excel in all situations, but it at least would be in line with the "Turtle Tank" concept SE made PLD out to be.

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Originally Posted by Firon

That's one of the other problem with pld right there. One of its best dmg moves is never used cause it has a stupid requirement.

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It is true they have to rethink some of these requirements. It is really dumb if a tanking class is fighting a large monster or boss that has high stun resist, and you have to get behind it without making it spin around to successfully execute a combo, and especially without putting the back line classes/jobs at risk at getting hit with aoe.