The skill progression is atrocious

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Originally Posted by linayar

That's why I said relative to your abilities.

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Alright, guess I misunderstood you then.

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Originally Posted by linayar

And I have a much easier time on higher level dungeons than on lower level dungeons because my own stats and abilities more than compensate for the increased stats of the enemies.

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Hard to argue with your perception of the dungeon difficulty, but in my case I find the earlier dungeons to require minimal effort and being practically snoozefests.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I'm talking about a specific feature, here. I'm not saying you can't leave any critique about the game at all.

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I don't follow. Critique the game but not this specific feature?

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Originally Posted by linayar

And yes, many parts of the game can be improved, but the specific part that we're talking about is you not liking the character progression in this game, something that is core to how this game works. It affects the entirety of how contents are scaled for all characters of the game.

I consider that a core part of the game, something that I like about the game, and you want to change it and make it like other games that exist that you can play instead and enjoy their leveling experience if that's what you want.

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Yes the character progression is core of pretty much every RPG. That is why I personally find it so troubling when it comes off as needlessly slow and boring at the start. You say I that I just want to make it like other game, and while that is partially true its quite the opposite when it comes the specifically MMORPGs. I have played so many that require way too much dedication to get to the fun parts and I'm seriously sick of that. I see no reason to why a game, even one where a serious time investment is expected, can't start being fun early on. And in this games case I find that it mainly comes down to how the progression is handled. But if the current progression system is what you prefer than I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

40 levels is not half the game. It's maybe a fifth or less.

The gear at low levels is great. Much of it is very intricate if you actually look at it. Just because you don't like doesn't mean it's bad. You just have more to choose from as you get higher like any other game. You can't actually expect to have all the gear from the beginning. You'd have nothing to gain and no reason to continue playing. If you really don't like your selection you can buy something from the shop, but by the time you hit 50 or 60 you'll have so many options you won't know what to do with it all.

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Lower level gear is for the most part rather simplistic by design, but I think some of it is charming as a result. I personally don't mind it, though I prefer my gear to be just a bit more fancy.

Would you sooner have people start will all their 80 skills at level 1 and get overwhelmed and quit?

Also, you need to remember this game is being built on top and top and top of again and again.
Reworking level 1-50 content doesn't make a ton of sense when the Core majority of players who stick around month after month are 80 with like a few 80s and aren't leveling 1-50 content.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

The new player has more chances to leave because they have 3 buttons to press for 30-40 levels and extremely dull gear design for the first 50 levels.

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Except pacing of level gains is much different when you compare start to middle to end. You earn levels extremely rapidly 1-30 and rapidly 30-50. The pace slows down noticeably 50-70. It slows even further 70-80. Those first 30-40 levels only represent about 15% of the time needed to get to 80.

Right now when it comes to skills, what really holds you back is MSQ progression blocking access to the zones needed for your job quests (or trial completion when it comes to SMN and the egis).

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Originally Posted by Lumberfoot

Yes the character progression is core of pretty much every RPG. That is why I personally find it so troubling when it comes off as needlessly slow and boring at the start. You say I that I just want to make it like other game, and while that is partially true its quite the opposite when it comes the specifically MMORPGs. I have played so many that require way too much dedication to get to the fun parts and I'm seriously sick of that. I see no reason to why a game, even one where a serious time investment is expected, can't start being fun early on. And in this games case I find that it mainly comes down to how the progression is handled. But if the current progression system is what you prefer than I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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This is where you're going to run into disagreement with a lot of players.

Personally, I have fun with the starting content. I love that initial character development, the feeling of going from someone who is clueless to someone who's starting to get a clue finally to someone who is genuinely becoming powerful.

On the other hand, I got bored quickly with the MMOs I tried where characters start off pretty much with their full toolkits then never had any real growth after that. There was nothing to look forward to in character development, only different mob grinds to experience.

Thanks, but that's not my style of game. This is my style of game. I'd rather not see it changed so that my character development is all shoved into the first 10 hours of game play and I don't have anything interesting to look forward to in the 100 hours after that.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

Would you sooner have people start will all their 80 skills at level 1 and get overwhelmed and quit?

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Can we stop assuming that every new player is an amoeba unable to perform 2+2?

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

Would you sooner have people start will all their 80 skills at level 1 and get overwhelmed and quit?

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why does it have to be black and white? either start with 1 skill or the whole kit? we can have a middle ground where the game gives you the core of your job earlier on and every other subtlety afterwards.

lets talk about how white mage utterly fails at its skill progression:

if you look at white mage in endgame, they heal mainly using lilies and ogcds. if those font suffice, they have regens. but the game doednt lead you there. instead you spend the first 29 levels relying entirely on cure 1 for single target healing. then you get cure 2 and you shouldn't touch cure 1 again. then 5 levels lster you get regen (a level too high to be able to use it in brayflox, where you could capitalize on it the most since that dungeon has many poisons). then you get absolutely nothing till lv 50 when you get benediction and medica ii, which means you can't use either in aurum vale. You then get the core of white mages identity, lilies, during dusk vigil at lv 52, but by that time regen is still a better gcd because of its potency and no misery.

At level 60 you finally have your core kit (ogcds, regens, lilies) but by that time the awful skill progression already gave you really bad habits, such as relying on cure/cure ii for almost all damage since thats all you did for the majority of when you started playing.


instead, white mage couldve had cure ii at lv 26 (like benefic ii), regen at lv 30, and lilies at lv 47 or 50. that alone would've given new players more time to get a grasp on the core playstyle of white mage instead of cure spamming. and it also would feel better to play when level synced as well

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Originally Posted by Lumberfoot

I don't follow. Critique the game but not this specific feature?

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What's hard to understand? It's like critiquing FFXIV for having a GCD-based combat system. If you want a more action-based combat system, then play another game.

Hello, figure be something to chime in here. Even though it says my account is 240 days old, realistically I have been playing for about 3 weeks (give or take). I am overall enjoying the game, so dont take it as I hate the game or something silly like that.

I just crossed 37 as a warrior and 26 as a Lancer (a few other classes but lets not talk about those)

I defiantly can see on the Lancer where having a few more options earlier on would help some. Up until I think 25 it was 2 abilities with True thrust, and every 30s alternating to a different 2nd ability between vorpal and disembowled (along with the occasional life surge or if I am fighting things harder then I should some of the survival abilities.) It was fairly 1 -2 1 - 2 though for a bit of it, so I could see adding an additional ability or 2 in there wouldn't be asking to much to add in.

Warrior I think picked up the 3rd action in their combo sooner, but tanking always have a bit more choice on what you should do next in pretty much any game. I think having multiple aoe abilities would help some over just lining up a smash hit to try to hit all the mobs to keep them. (im sure more aoe abilities are better) I havent found any dungeon terribly difficult up the the Maw, but have a set group going to all of them, so might take away some of the challenge.

This is exactly why to this day FFXIV is still the hardest MMO to get into. If you are a brand new player you really have to just grit your teeth and make it through the slog that is ARR Job progression. I can only speak for myself but when I started FFXIV at the launch of Heavensward, the only saving grace for FFXIV for me was the story. If I hadn't fallen in love with the story as much as I had I would have easily stopped playing a long time ago and now after having looked back I'm glad I didn't stop playing because I have almost every Job at max level and I thoroughly enjoy playing all of them including all the gathering and crafting Jobs which I also have maxed out. They did a good job with the immense slog that is the ARR revamp, now all they need to do is just fix early class progression on all the jobs. Playing your jobs from levels 1-60 still feels just as terrible as it did when I started the game. It might be addressed someday but I wouldn't count on anything soon.

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Originally Posted by HardcoreRaider

It's because casual players can't handle 4 buttons in their rotation after 10 hours of gameplay so to coddle them they had to gut half the skills across the floor.

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Hardcore and FF14 always makes me laugh.

"Stay out of that yellow circle that tells you EXACTLY where the attack is going to be! Don't worry! You got ten seconds to run away! I'll count down for you!"

Would love to see you in games like Guilty Gear and Street Fighter.