I love beautiful animations.. but I think they're too slow for this game

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I haven't been keeping up with this thread

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It's your thread..lol.. douche

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Originally Posted by Rydin

A couple points...

this kind of lag/latency after 2.0 will indeed kill the game... no matter what

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Simply this. I hope that Yoshida & Co. know this too :S

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Originally Posted by Rydin

It's your thread..lol.. douche

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Woke up to this... lol. Made my day.

Nothing against OP, of course.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I haven't been keeping up with this thread but it's not all about animation locks. Even if it was about that, a one-sentence response in an interview is nothing to go on. 2.0 is looked at as the Second Coming of Christ but it is hardly that and I would like to hear some comments from the battle team about what this thread IS about, which is about animation implementation in this game, including animation lock.

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I can completely agree with you, as there are numerous things I'd like actual Dev comments on. Just how they will handle animation lock being one, and just how much better the servers will be in 2.0. Yoshi has made statements basically defending the fact that there will always be server delay due to how networking works while saying every other MMO works that way. That's great... but no other MMO takes as long to do it, and I want to hear from him that 2.0 will make FFXIV like every other mmo in the "not taking forever to do what every other mmo does" department. But it felt (to me) like that initial response was kind of an excuse for the game to still be sluggish when 2.0 hits (which I hope it's not).

I think it is likely SE is still working with or balancing the way they will "deal" with animation locking, and don't want to make an announcement to us before they're concrete on their course of action. I'm mostly ok with that, but I don't want to wait until 2.0 to know what is going to be fixed and how.

I agree somewhat that the battles should be a little more responsive, not necessarily faster as in the mobs are easier or anything like that. I also dislike animation lock, it's that special time when I try to drive my 'W' or 'S' key through the keyboard from pushing the (Run Away!) button during enemy TP attacks and such. Especially as a healer, this becomes a glaring issue... which I know they're working on. As an Archer, it would be nice if the battles felt more cohesive than they do now. Faster-paced would be more exciting but I really do enjoy the animations in FFXIV.

Please don't do anything to our animations. I remember playing the game during the beta and thinking, well I'm out of quests to do but harvesting grass as a botanist looks awesome and look at the little needlepoint thing my weaver is doing! As for the crafting... while I agree that it is long and drawn out, I am generally taking a break from leveling when I craft and I don't really mind the time it takes. I like that they're "streamlining" the crafting, whatever they plan on doing, but I really enjoy the animations. This is the only game that strives to present animations and actions like they happen in RL with motion capture and such. There are many games out there that have horrible crafting, spell, gathering animations and everyone can name them. I find it hard to play games when you're crafting your new, rare, uber Robe of the Long and Drawn Out Names and your character is... rubbing their hands together. Boring.

Better spell animations would be great, I was so sad to see that Stone on Conj looked exactly like Aero and Cure and everything else. Where are the stones?? They also need to add more spells to all of the mage classes, in FFXI I had a ridiculously long list of abilities and spells at the halfway point, here I have... 8 or 10.

I disagree with instant cast anything and everything, the fact that everything takes time to cast or buff plays a strategy in the battles imo. I like that they're keeping it similar to RL in that there's a consequence to every action and make you actually think when choosing abilities and such.

I'll leave you with a horrifying video of simplified animations, true the game isn't out yet and they may be adding them later, but seriously, this is what could happen if they speed them up too much. They can move while casting but those repetitive and boring animations would bore me to tears. You can see the awesome animations about 35 seconds into the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Piioe...eature=related

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I think part of the problem is that SE have used motion capture for many of the animations which means that it has to play out exactly as the animation has been recorded. (this is assuming you don't cut off during the animation)

They should be looking more at procedural animation and blending of different animations, they managed it with the transition from running with a weapon sheathed to running with it unsheathed, so it's clearly possible.

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Originally Posted by Kittkat26

I'll leave you with a horrifying video of simplified animations, true the game isn't out yet and they may be adding them later, but seriously, this is what could happen if they speed them up too much. They can move while casting but those repetitive and boring animations would bore me to tears. You can see the awesome animations about 35 seconds into the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Piioe...eature=related

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To the latter, what looks so horrible about that video? It doesn't look horrible because it's too fast. It looks horrible because it's not mo capped and there aren't any good intermediate swings in between the arms shooting straight out. It's classic lazy work.

To the former post, that's exactly right that a lot of the animations are mo capped, if not all of them, which does mean in order to preserve the mo cap work the duration needs to be shortened. These are technical details we're talking about. It won't end up looking like The Secret World because it will still be mo capped. Imagine if someone swings their arm fast in a mo cap room. Now imagine them doing it slow. Do you think their arm moved differently? The beauty of mo cap is that adjustment to the duration (speed) can still be made after the mo cap session and you still have a great looking animation. If it doesn't look good for some reason they need to fire up their mo cap studio again.

Aside from shorter animations where necessary, other animations need to be lengthened / looped, and others need to be taken entirely out of the game, like the buffing /psych animation.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

This is basically what we have in this game, as a BLM I spam Thunder and Thundara and the odd buff to increase DPS, throw in a freeze to lower enmity etc, that is my rotation.

Don't pretend this game is any different.

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Did I say that FFXIV wasn't about skill rotation and dps spam? No I didnt. I fail to see how you think im pretending its different. You are assuming (as all ppl do) that because i don't like WoW that I must belong in the FFXIV-fantard camp, which makes ridiculous claims that the two are nothing alike and that FFXIV is superior in every way. Stop it. If you're going to respond to my posts at least read them and characterize my stance correctly. Every post ive responded to has been BS like this lol.

I swear ppl post on forums purely to argue, which is why they fail to actually read and understand ppl's points of view. Are you that lazy? Seriously now.

I'm not gonna say it again. Anyone else that gets it wrong after this is just an idiot or a troll.

1. I'm not bashing WoW or FFXIV, I am telling it like it is. WoW is a twitch game, which requires a different skillset than FFXIV, which is *not* a twitch game. This makes the two games fundamentally different, and if you can't see the difference you are beyond help.

2. Twitch games require physical skill. This comes in the form of finger dexterity (accurate and quick keystrokes), as well as reflex. You do not *think* in WoW so much as you *react*. Most of your actions are automatic, as in a predefined rotation that you are accustomed to using. The only interruption or changes in this rotation occur as a result of reflex and reaction.

3. Games like FFXIV are slower paced and use an animation lock, so it is less about *reflex* as it is about *Planning and forethought*. Its designed around mental skill, like chess, more than physical skill. You do not need good reflexes or finger dexterity to play FFXIV successfully. The hardest battle is always predictable enough, and you only need to be *smart* in order to succeed. This means using the right skills at the right time due to animation lock. Like WoW skills occur in a predefined rotation; what sets it apart from WoW is that interruptions in this rotation are not the result of reflex and reaction, but of thought and strategy. As in I dont finish my combo because I suspect that TP move is due soon and I do not want to be caught up in it. You do not do this in WoW. In WoW you interrupt a combo because you *see* something happening or something has already happened.


Get it now?! How many times do I have to say one isnt better than another? Its exhausting really. Even sadder is that the majority of these fail posts get likes, meaning even more ppl lack reading comprehension.

EDIT: To reiterate again (cuz ppl are bound to be stupid), I am not a hater or a fanboy. I prefer FFXIV because that is a style I like. I don't like "twitch games", especially when gear tends to trump physical skill in the long run. That being said, the two just require different skills. Anyone who says animation lock is a broken mechanic is incorrect. Anyone who says there's no skill involved surrounding animation lock is incorrect.

To clarify, I say WoW takes no skill precisely because gear will pwn everything without question. Also because class balance sucked while I was playing, might be better now. Also because in PvE it is literally a faceroll unless you are priest or tank. PvP, if we throw out gear and crappy class balance, is where skill is really involved. FFXIV of course has some of the same afflictions in its PvE if you're a blm or brd. If youre a melee dps its nothing close to a faceroll and is, in fact, somewhat challenging.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Twitch games require physical skill. This comes in the form of finger dexterity (accurate and quick keystrokes), as well as reflex. You do not *think* in WoW so much as you *react*. Most of your actions are automatic, as in a predefined rotation that you are accustomed to using. The only interruption or changes in this rotation occur as a result of reflex and reaction.

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Ummm, the problem I have with this is that you don't *think* in FFXIV either. You sit and wait, lol. It doesn't take strenuous "mental" power to just wait 15 seconds for a mob to use its ability.

Ifrit is probably the "hardest" fight for melee's available, and all you have to do is stop doing stuff after you see him use his claw/swipe move twice rofl. Is that what's considered "skill" in FFXIV?

This battle system isn't challenging, its annoying.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Animations in battle.

I'd like to see these animations sped up like 1 light year. I suggest making them so fast they seem unnatural, then scaling it back one notch. It's really lame how your character gets animation locked in tough battles, and it doesn't make any sense.

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Long animation in battle actually make sense!, but it need to be more rewarding. Risk vs profit should always come in mind when developer adjust WS balance. look at Puglist for example. Very long animation WS is doing less damage than the short one. When you have time to waste for long animation WS, at least it should be a big shot of damage.

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Originally Posted by Alise

Long animation in battle actually make sense!, but it need to be more rewarding. Risk vs profit should always come in mind when developer adjust WS balance. look at Puglist for example. Very long animation WS is doing less damage than the short one. When you have time to waste for long animation WS, at least it should be a big shot of damage.

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I wasn't referring to WSes in that paragraph. I was thinking of the buffing /psych animation and the casting animation. Maybe I'll amend the OP. Anyway you have a really great point!