5.0 Dark knight request: Delirium rework

It's because it would shake things up a lot. First the potency would have to be buffed a lot to make up for it taking up a GCD slot instead of being OGCD. With those kind of potencies Edge would become the back bone of your burst GCDs. Taking a TBN proc into burst windows would become pretty much a requirement for anyone wanting to do decent damage. I'd also rather not have the TBN reward be on GCD again to begin with and I'd want it to be an obvious gain even less when currently it's mostly neutral unless you take that into raidbuffs.
This would not exactly be a small "just change this" kind of thing. It would affect your rotation and the feel of the class a lot. If I wanted to play with almost everything being on GCD I'd play Warrior.

If you are experiencing clipping even with single weaving you should definitely look into a VPN by the way. Sounds like serious connection issues.

Well Lammas, as i wrote before the potency lost from having Edge as a gcd would go to making our remaining ogcds more meaningful adding synergy or what not, its potency would still be 500 at the cost of 3000 mp, lower than bloodspiller thus making it not the demanding gcd for our burst window. Also i dont know why making it gcd means you have to proc tbn during a burst phase, if tbn breaks is neutral dps wise, EoS being ogcd or gcd doesnt matter as they share the same amount of resource.
Yet i do see your point of not wanting Drk to have less ogcds as right now is one of the little things that separate it from Warrior.

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Originally Posted by PeacefulEdge

Well Lammas, as i wrote before the potency lost from having Edge as a gcd would go to making our remaining ogcds more meaningful adding synergy or what not, its potency would still be 500 at the cost of 3000 mp, lower than bloodspiller thus making it not the demanding gcd for our burst window. Also i dont know why making it gcd means you have to proc tbn during a burst phase, if tbn breaks is neutral dps wise, EoS being ogcd or gcd doesnt matter as they share the same amount of resource.
Yet i do see your point of not wanting Drk to have less ogcds as right now is one of the little things that separate it from Warrior.

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You seriously underestimate the difference of what would happen if you moved something OGCD to GCD, especially something that's used as much as EoS. That's very far from the truth. Being on GCD is a "resource" by itself.

One of my latest fights had 40 Edges in it. That's 40 * 500 potency that does not take up a GCD. In a sense it's "free" as it's not taking up a GCD slot from the fight.

You put Edge on GCD and every edge you use becomes another GCD that you just lost because of that. You'd still want to use Edge because it's so powerful but it's no longer "free".

That innocent little change would end up losing 40 GCDs worth of damage in a fight. That's thousands upon thousands of potency. You'd need some seriously heavyhanded potency changes on the "remaining OGCDs" to make up for that kind of a difference.

EDIT: I just realized I severely missread that message I quoted and answered with something completely else.

Yup thats a lot of dps lost, we could put blood weapon and salted earth as they were on SB, buff abyssal drain potency a bit and change delirium into the "after using a weaponskill next weaponskill will become an ogcd ability" but with a much lower cd like of 45-60 seconds and a duration of 4 gcds instead of 5, etc... There are always paths to dump dmg into a job, the difficult part is how pleasantly that dps number is delivered.

Ofc im writing all this for the funssies, im not expecting to be taken seriously about what i write, just here talking about life and edgy sword masters, giving my part to the thread because as someone once said:

"When i held him in my arms i felt hope, for what, i dont know"

Now i will take my leave while i feel like an actual wise person. Hurhurhur o7.

Honestly DRK would probably work better with GCD burst damage that doesn't rely on Delirium being discount Inner Release/Requiescat, but the frequency of said burst GCD would need to be 30 seconds for each burst GCD if the devs really want DRK to spam Souleater combo the entire fight.

So kind of like a Drk flavoured gnash combo, For example could be Delirium( old animation)---> Scourge---> Power Slash and instead of having a "continuation" skill the perks of the combo could be that it has a 2.05-2.15 skill speed and gives big resources like for example Delirium reduces the cost of the next Flood of Shadows used to 1000 mp, Scourge give us 50 blood and Power Slash 2000 mp this way instead of worring about been obliged to double weave at high speeds( pretty sure the opener would still be a double weaving party) it would be about not capping resources. Though maybe having this combo every 30 seconds would be a higher dps gain than current delirium :( .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PeacefulEdge

So kind of like a Drk flavoured gnash combo, For example could be Delirium( old animation)---> Scourge---> Power Slash and instead of having a "continuation" skill the perks of the combo could be that it has a 2.05-2.15 skill speed and gives big resources like for example Delirium reduces the cost of the next Flood of Shadows used to 1000 mp, Scourge give us 50 blood and Power Slash 2000 mp this way instead of worring about been obliged to double weave at high speeds( pretty sure the opener would still be a double weaving party) it would be about not capping resources. Though maybe having this combo every 30 seconds would be a higher dps gain than current delirium :( .

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Or just Heavensward DRK with Stormblood DRK's 4.3 changes, with the stuff they threw in at Shadowbringers launch but that's just pipe dream at this point...

I just can't stand the 'feel' of DRK in SHB. So much so that it's gone from being my main, to me looking for another tank (GNB, perhaps). I don't like that our damage buff is in some way related to darkest night, or that darkest night feels like the best solution for mitigation in practically every situation, since the other shields don't grant a boon if they're broken. Delirium is basically a "press this button to spam" ability that feels completely monotonous and unrewarding to use, and blood weapon, similarly, lacks any 'cool' factor now that it's just a way to siphon back some MP.

I'll say upfront that I'm not a technical player. For me, it's all about how satisfying a job feels to play, not where it's at in the current meta. The DRK might be doing great on that front, I don't know, nor care, but it's gone from being a job that was a joy to use, to one that just feels clunky unappealing. A big disappointment for me, given that I thought ShB would be DRK's time to shine.

Well yeah, in the technical part is as someone said, the more "complete version of Drk" but that has been achieved through making it well… really close to the other tanks instead of deepening its own previous tool-kit.

For example about counter mechanics, well we have "dance partner" on Dancer right?, lets have "linked shadows" skill on Drk, if you are MT dont use it, now if you are OT you use it on the MT and what it does is that changes the target of the skill to the marked target.
Blood Price for example, gives back mp if you are hit, with linked shadows it changes the requirement from <self> to <t1> so if MT takes dmg you are still getting the effect, ofc dont use blood Price the moment a Pld or a Gbn decides to HG or Hiperbolide :>.

I know I'm going to get flack for this but in the interest of reality here it goes. As much as I would love it, and believe the paying customers are right to want more out of this job (and the role as a whole), I don't think a rework that is deeply tied into how the overall job functions (by numbers) is going to happen at this point. Although based on a survey I saw on reddit it does appear they (se) have been fixing jobs in order of least satisfaction, with exception for WAR, so who knows. For next expansion though I want a unique design style for DRK, one that isn't going to be whored out in future expansions, and is tied into lore. Delirium should have never become inner release. I'm in the conspiracy camp that GNB Continuation style play was meant for dark knight but then was a co-op to GNB since it fit well. Needing something, and not wanting to use extra time/manpower/money on DRK, was the birth of DelIRium - the other alternative is pure laziness on the part of the dev team... I don't believe that but maybe it's just me.

I feel, to a lesser extent, strongly about this for WAR too since they got ir as a hand-me-down from PLD. At least there was some variants between PLD and WAR in 4.x (actually in 5.x one could argue they are closer than 4.x because of the healing aspect from nf, and pld having the mobility like war already had in 4.x ir window); There is little difference, conceptually, between inner release and delirium except that delirium is worse and clearly a mathematical filler ability with no kit synergy.

My biggest gripe to SE would be if you didn't know how to make all the tank jobs feel unique and different and continue to be engaging then you should have stuck with two and continued to tweak them. They can't seem to make more than two at a time fun and appealing to a comp during a single expansion. And from the lack of response we get I'm making a reasonable guess that they are okay with leaving two in a lackluster spot if two are preferred and fun. DRK is a gutted one trick pony and I have a feeling, based on past reworks, its going to be rinse and repeat next expansion. While other jobs build upon their unique abilities DRK will be reworked in a way that has no depth again. It'll be giving us things like dark missionary in 5.x which we should have had in 4.x after war was revamped (SiO) since it gave an advange to taking a war/pld comp - thanks again se.

At the very least fix LD during this expansion. Yoshi said he would look into it. Presuming he did.... I'd actually like to know where he stands after looking into it and what his reasoning is for not doing something about it. I remember him saying something about not wanting to touch HG for fear of player backlash but nothing about LD. Are we entitled to an answer? Yes! We pay for a service don't we? Concerned costumers is the term I would use.