Sexual harassment

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Originally Posted by Doozer

You are aware that very rarely are accusations false, right? Sure there are some, but people don\\\\'t usually accuse others of things like this because of the stigma and victim blaming that happens. There\\\\'s no glory in accusing someone of sexually harassing or assaulting you.

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You cleary did not read my whole comment.

Please dont talk for *people* it's your point of view you are talking about. You and I dont accuse for glory but may others will to hurt others. That what we call revanche and it's very easy on the internet.

Just like in the thread. The line of sexual harrasment is different per person. There is no general rule and there will never be one. Like ingame people role play alot and some people are offended by roleplay ingame.

I am not defending it. There are crazy peeps out there who will miss use it... people will distrust it.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Everything I saw about gamergate made it look like a vile cesspit that attracted the worst of the gaming community.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

"Look At Gamergate"

ah, yes, the man-baby movement. Let's look to them for moral enlightenment. Genius.

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Gamergate, is responsible for creating the bogeymen they feared, so it's no surprise that people who still think there is legitimacy in it, endorse extreme rightwing propaganda. Where Gamergate blames women, alt-right blames immigrants. It's all about creating a target to punch down on until it's accepted as truth, and people in the movement are fooled into either parting with their money or their lives like any other cult.

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Originally Posted by Solarra

- in extreme cases they may threaten to harm themselves if you try to break off the friendship or don't do what they want. This may not be a direct threat, it may take the form of telling you they would have hurt themselves if you hadn't been there for them or they don't know how they'll cope without you).

It is really hard to combat this because abusers tend to choose people who are vulnerable and/or very empathic and ruthlessly exploit their sympathy or good nature to maintain their hold.

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The entire "I'll hurt myself/someone else/pet/property if you won't do what I ask" is the point that you absolutely must call law enforcement. It may not matter if YOU care about that person, but that person is now a direct threat to everyone they are around, and you're likely not the first person they've done it to.

Most abusers were abused themselves. It's a cycle that has to be broken. Emphatic people are often victims of abuse, because they're told that family or friends will leave them if they involve law enforcement.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The entire "I'll hurt myself/someone else/pet/property if you won't do what I ask" is the point that you absolutely must call law enforcement. It may not matter if YOU care about that person, but that person is now a direct threat to everyone they are around, and you're likely not the first person they've done it to.

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Absolutely. I don't think anyone should try and handle things alone if it gets to that point.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Gamergate, is responsible for creating the bogeymen they feared, so it's no surprise that people who still think there is legitimacy in it, endorse extreme rightwing propaganda. Where Gamergate blames women, alt-right blames immigrants. It's all about creating a target to punch down on until it's accepted as truth, and people in the movement are fooled into either parting with their money or their lives like any other cult.

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And there it is, inserting a political agenda onto a gaming forum. Please stop. This is not the place for anyone's propaganda.

Back when I was a Lalafell I had a house in the mist right on the beach and I set it up like a nice little beach resort. I had a whole bunch of beach chairs set up outside with the spas and everything and I loved it. One day these filthy rpers came on my lawn and sat in my chairs. One of them was a lady hume and asked me to give her a back rub. She said that my "little hands will work wonders in all the right places." Needless to say I gave her a back rub but I was none to pleased and to this day I do not have beach chairs on my lawn.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

And there it is, inserting a political agenda onto a gaming forum. Please stop. This is not the place for anyone's propaganda.

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"Political Agenda" is a buzzword that tries to give credence to a group of giant man-children who pitched a fit and threatened people. But uh. Yeah, go ahead and pump that one brain cell to think they were ever in the right, I guess?



For the topic at hand, though:

- Treating people like people isn't a political stance or some revolutionary controversial position.
- Abuse and harassment, and sexual abuse and harassment, are both morally reprehensible.
- If you think it's the victims' fault for allowing it, then you probably don't understand much about the topic at hand and think yourself a veritable expert on human psyche because you maybe read an article once.
- Yes, emotionally vulnerable and inexperienced people make bad decisions. But it's still the fault of the other person involved for taking advantage of it and actively causing harm. And knowingly causing harm.

No, it's not fun to be in the situation a lot of the women are/were in during this whole debacle with TMP. No, it's not obvious when it starts and by the time one comes to realize what was going on, it's already too late because odds are something was said, something was done, something was provided in the past when trust was high that can now be used against you. And no, it's not an easy decision to make when you're weighing two options and one of them encompasses keeping a position you heavily enjoy and see as an opportunity to branch off into larger things. It's also not fun to have your social circles threatened, your reputation and dignity threatened to keep you continuing with something you really want to be out of.

Yes, there's more cases of this. Yes, there's likely stuff like this happening in other communities in-game right now with other people involved.

Yes, putting these cases on display not only helps raise a sense of awareness that this can go on, but it can also provide information and tools to people who might eventually be able to use such tools and knowledge to avoid the situation.

Yes, this type of crap sticks with you for a long time. Yes, it makes most people feel emotionally charged on the topic (I know I'm withholding a lot of self-restraint right now).

No, calling someone a pos for doing this to multiple people is not "a witch hunt" especially when the information is fully on display. It's called holding someone accountable for their actions. Good god.

Yes, most of this is directly about TMP and that thing.

Welp, this stuff always finds a way, like a weed.

Ok, so to get down to brass tacks, theres a few issues here.

Your avatar =/= you. You cannot sexually harass a non living entity. The idea of a random person sexually harassing your character in game is making the same argument of "Her barbie doll is sexually harassing my ken doll (or vice versa)." I think an issue people need to learn and understand is that while we can immerse ourselves in a video game, we need to be adults about this and realize "Its a video game". If someone is doing 'lewd' stuff to your character, or being like "show me your 'x'", we need to acknowledge "hey, thats immersion breaking" and stupid. Afterall, very few people refer to their character as I. We typically say "My Dark Knight is...", "My scholar was," or "I ran Byakko EX with my Bard...". Most people in talk, talk about their character as a third person, not as themselves.



It becomes sexual harassment, in my estimate, when they begin targeting you, the actual living breathing real deal person. When its no longer about your avatar but about you specifically, the actual end user. This takes some level of discretion and awareness of course. But if they start saying things to you in private, trying to get real world info about, wanting to take chats to off game, etc. Then you can start raising flags about it.



At that point, fine, you got a real issue we can discuss. Report them, then proceed to mute/block them, and move on. If its an FC member, talk to FC leadership about it. Dont get pissed, however, if they have a healthy level of skepticism. Taking your word alone without and followup should be frowned upon. Take screenshots to back up your claims though. If they refuse to help or what not, then you either cope with it or leave the FC. Sucks but thats life. If the group isnt right for you, stop associating with them. You have control over that. Do whats best in your own interest and own it. Dont stay in a situation that sucks ass and is not getting resolved. If you do, complaining about how 'unfair it is' means little. You make the choice to stay in an unfair situation. And yeah, these kind of situations tends to spoil things. Make things difficult, but thats life sometimes. Sometimes bad things happen and nothing can be done about it except take your leave. Own it and run with it.

But going back to the first point, your avatar isnt you. Its an avatar. A 'doll' you created. Thats it. People running up to it and being stupid (using lewd emotes or what not) isnt sexual harassment. Its just people being stupid. Gross, sometimes sure (admittedly its funny sometimes how stupid they are). Ridiculous, sure. But is it you? No. Its a thing you project on. And so long as you have the mind to understand that, its not going to 'break you'.

"But what about the children!!!!"

I saw someone argue that, saying the 'damage is done'. Well first off, MAYBE you shouldnt have young children playing this game unsupervised. Just saying. If theyre a teen, as long as its not sustained direct harassment, theyll be fine. Teens arent fragile things thatll break the instant someone unpleasant happens. As a parent, they should be talking with their kids about that. You know, the whole being an actual parent thing. And before someone says "Well they dont know!", thats just lazyness. Your job as a parent is to be aware. Get knowledgeable about the things your kids are into and do.

If that FAILS, be a big sister/brother to other players. Be someone that can keep an eye on them and be there for them if they DO have an issue. This doesnt mean being a parent, it means being an adult and keeping an eye on things. If you think something is up, ask and investigate. Do your part, particularly if you feel its a huge issue. Dont be mother hen, be big sister.

TLDR: People need to start being adults more about a lot of things. Youre not receiving sexual harassment if someone is being stupid to your avatar. Youre not your avatar. Think of hte children is a stupid argument. Parents need to be exercising responsibility, and if they fail and your an adult, be a stand up person and just keep an eye on things and make sure younger players know youre someone they can talk to. Be rational about solving issues, not emotional.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

"Political Agenda" is a buzzword that tries to give credence to a group of giant man-children who pitched a fit and threatened people. But uh. Yeah, go ahead and pump that one brain cell to think they were ever in the right, I guess?
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It literally was throwing in a political agenda though, the person went off topic of the sexual harassment to something else entirely. Gamergate and immigrants? The F$%^ does that have to do with the topic of sexual harassment. Gamergate was some cesspool of people on both sides, and the immigrant comment is just stirring up political crap on a game forum where it isn't needed. So the person is within full sense to tell them not to bring that crap to the forums

Nice work jumping right to insulting a the person and an entire group of supposed "man-children", very mature

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Originally Posted by Areic

It literally was throwing in a political agenda though, the person went off topic of the sexual harassment to something else entirely. Gamergate and immigrants? The F$%^ does that have to do with the topic of sexual harassment. Gamergate was some cesspool of people on both sides, and the immigrant comment is just stirring up political crap on a game forum where it isn't needed. So the person is within full sense to tell them not to bring that crap to the forums

Nice work jumping right to insulting a the person and an entire group of supposed "man-children", very mature

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Gamergate was a movement of men just harassing women constantly. That's all it was. (And yes, harassment is directly related to the topic... it's... it's like things don't survive in a vacuum!) It's also a stupid movement that served no real purpose.

And yes, they were a bunch of immature babies.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

"Political Agenda" is a buzzword that tries to give credence to a group of giant man-children who pitched a fit and threatened people. But uh. Yeah, go ahead and pump that one brain cell to think they were ever in the right, I guess?

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

In particular, please do not use the forum as a means to name and shame other people when discussing the topic or personal experiences and consider the tone of your post in an effort to avoid being intentionally insulting, inflammatory, or harassing of other people.

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