PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

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Originally Posted by Zephiroth

the numbers r as good as they r.200 more dps is the attended DPS a Warrior should do because thats what he is and thats was yoshi p said ;) stop flaming.if they would buff the PLD they have to do it with the WAR too.u will never dps the same as WAR as can do :)

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Please feel free to watch numbers roll by in the fly text in these two videos. Warriors do NOT need a dps buff...obviously
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUnLg_ZPmeI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjZqrUMZQlA

Paladins on the other hand...yeah...could use it for sure.

Paladin doesn't need a buff to DPS. Paladin's doing pretty okay. The other two tanks need to get nerfed instead.

I feel as if I just got dumber reading this post. No one has any real control in their tests.. we have no idea what accessories are being used.. no parse data with crit rates.. and the last example was "look at the flying text" what the hell lol. PLDs strongest GCD is a DOT for Christs sake.

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Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

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So because PLD can do better in one out of four endgame raid fights, they're the best? You're being silly, a majority of Alexander Savage effectively undermines Paladin's so-called "Perfect Mitigation" by virtue of the fact there is not one single physical damage tankbuster in the entire set of raids, this means that the only good thing your shield can do is block fluff autoattack damage, which further renders both bulwark and sheltron useless. So what does this leave PLD with? Rampart, a cooldown that DRK has a perfect equivalent of, Sentinel, which is good but comparable to Vengeance and is beaten for Savage tankbusters by Dark Mind + Shadowskin and Hallowed Ground, an actually fairly good cooldown with a 7 minute recast time. Hallowed Ground alone does not make PLD "the perfect defense tank" everyone claims it is, not in the current raid tier. What PLD was in the coils of Bahamut is not relevant to Alexander Savage.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

Paladin doesn't need a buff to DPS. Paladin's doing pretty okay. The other two tanks need to get nerfed instead.

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Nerfs are never the best way to handle an adjustment.

PLD just has lackluster tank stance damage. It needs a ShO bump, not even a big one but being 100-150 dps behind DRKs and WARs is not acceptable.

If blocking an attack in ShO gave us a temporary attack boost we would be on even ground. Make it ShO only since SwO is fine. Make it a component of shield swipe if they have to. Something that lets us boost DPS while in our tank stance to be closer to WAR and PLD.

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Originally Posted by KircheAhaltZerbst

I feel as if I just got dumber reading this post. No one has any real control in their tests.. we have no idea what accessories are being used.. no parse data with crit rates.. and the last example was "look at the flying text" what the hell lol. PLDs strongest GCD is a DOT for Christs sake.

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100% agree. I'm not sure if this is helpful or not but last night I did about 750 on our faust clear for the week as DRK MT at ilvl 180/Ravana weapon/no eso gear/4 vit accessories (1 str 190 ring/2 170 vit and 2 180 vit)/no slash debuff. This was with some errors however via not keeping up dots, not pushing out more soul eaters, not using DP on cool down a couple times but it was the first night I've tried MTing it. I also still have 3 170 pieces to upgrade (head and two accessories) I am unsure what the crit rate was but we didn't have a dragoon or NIN in the party at the time. It was BLM/BLM/SMN/MNK.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Nerfs are never the best way to handle an adjustment.

PLD just has lackluster tank stance damage. It needs a ShO bump, not even a big one but being 100-150 dps behind DRKs and WARs is not acceptable.

If blocking an attack in ShO gave us a temporary attack boost we would be on even ground. Make it ShO only since SwO is fine. Make it a component of shield swipe if they have to. Something that lets us boost DPS while in our tank stance to be closer to WAR and PLD.

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No, the correct answer is absolutely a nerf. We're currently in a situation where the Tanking classes are busting over the "Support DPS" and nipping on the heels of the actual DPS. Buffing PLD damage is just playing with fire.

Without dark arts/Darkside
Hard Slash – 150
Spinning Slash – 220
Syphon Strike – 250
Power Slash – 300
Delirium – 280
Souleater - 260

Combos
Hard+Spin+Power = 670
Hard+Syphon+Delirium = 680
Hard+Syphon+souleater=660

PLD Combos
Fast+Savage+Halone = 610
Fast+Savage+Royal Authority = 690
Fast+Riot+Goring = 600((840 actual)+600/minute from DoT)

DRK oGCD
Carve & Spit – 100/minute
Scourge – 500(1000/minute)
Salted Earth – 525(700/minute)
Plunge – 200(400/minute)
Low Blow – 100(200+/minute)
Total DRK oGCD: 2400/minute+- low blow

PLD oGCD
Spirits Within – 600/minute
Circle of Scorn = 250/minute
Sword Oath – 50/auto(1442/minute)
Total PLD oGCD: 900(2342 counting bonus from autos)

Darkside/Dark Arts make up for lower natural potency & lack of Fight or Flight. PLD is trailing behind in the end after counting all buffs, but the difference is not nearly as significant as you would have people believe.

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Originally Posted by Faytte

Are you...absolutely crazy?

Dark have the highest core potencies out of all tanks. Have you looked at the potencies of other tanks?

Honestly? I do not even know how to take this post seriously after reading this. Scourge vs Fracture? Any of your combos vs ANY combos of other classes?

Royal Authority? 690 total potency.
Delirium--which includes mana restore and a debuff? 680. You are '10' potency behind a combo which includes an attack that does -nothing- but damage. Considering most DRK are also doing a DA+ Soul Eater once every 3 or so combos.

Yeah your potencies being low....lol.

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Delirium does not restore MP, Syphon does. It also results in lower overall DPS than Royal Authority/Goring Blade combos, which is what you are complaining about.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Wat....

And the problem is ShOs penalty and the lack of a way to circumvent it.

WAR can negate the penalty via IB/Unchained and gets back to 95% via Maim. If you are in deliverance you still get the increased damage from Maim plus all the other goodies.
DRK can negate with darkside (-20 +15) and then stack DA,Blood weapon, along with most potent core rotation. DRK also have 4 oGCDs to weave.

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Grit is a 23% DPS loss from what a DRK would be doing without it. You don't pretend Darkside is limited to Grit stance to fluff numbers. (.8*1.15 = .92) to (1.15 - .92 = .23)

I don't think he was fluffing numbers. He wasn't talking about the dps loss from grit, he was talking about the ability to gain back 15% of the loss with darkside.

The issue isn't OT damage, its MT damage.

Darkside is 15% damage boost, DA boost it further.

FoF is a 10% damage boost. Take away SwO potency and you see the huge discrepancy . Your math SUMs it all up nicely.