[dev1032] PUG skills singled out.

they need to make PUG LNC MRD stronger.

Does Lancer really need to be stronger? I was under the impression they were pretty much the top as far as physical damage goes. I'm really not sure where Archer stands these days aside from at the very least above Pug and Marauder.

I do not understand the mp change for the skills but I have been able to manage my mp very well by using Stygian Spikes and Siphon MP. I use Light Strike and Pummel several times through out a battle and still have plenty of mp left. Of course I have had to pump a ton of points into my mind stat.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Does Lancer really need to be stronger? I was under the impression they were pretty much the top as far as physical damage goes. I'm really not sure where Archer stands these days aside from at the very least above Pug and Marauder.

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I would say from playing Archer it has only gotten stronger so far the 15 seconds on multi-shot shot didnt really effect it all that much and auto-attack only effected the melees. Lancer deffinitely has pug and marauder beat dd wise though pug and mrd were made to be dual dd/tanks. We'll just have to wait for SE to retool the classes for some better balance.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Does Lancer really need to be stronger? I was under the impression they were pretty much the top as far as physical damage goes. I'm really not sure where Archer stands these days aside from at the very least above Pug and Marauder.

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Archer damage is strongest, much above LNC and any other. they can end BR with multishot + full buff = 900x3 = 2700 damage.

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Originally Posted by hotah

I was curious as to why Light Strike and Pummel requires 10 and 20 mana respectively, while the other DoW classes have no such resource requirement.

Light Stab (increase accuracy)
Heavy Stab (increase enmity)
Heavy Slash (increase enmity)

Broad Swing (conal attack)
Heavy Swing --
Full Swing (conal attack, increase enmity)

Multishot (extra shot, 15 seconds)
Heavy Shot (reduces target TP)

Heavy Thrust (bind)
Pierce (damages enemies in line)
Full Thrust --

Light Strike (increase evasion and physical defense) 10 MP
Pummel -- 20 MP
Flurry (extra attack)

What justifies it?

edit: archer skills

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You have my full support. I made the first complaint about this some time ago after the update patch when we started getting mp charges to use those moves. Melee, is not MP. It's not realistic and makes absolutely no sense. Maybe if it stole MP, it would, but no... Not as a Pug. It's upsetting and disgusting to disturbs the balance of mp on magic to self heal or others.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

So.....still waiting on word on this one. I mean I'm bringing my Marauder up so I'll have no need for my Pugilist soon but I'd still love some kind of word on this issue. Why Pugilist? Will per-class point allocation make this better for us? Will we get more MP per Mind stat to make up for it? Is there any kind of logical justification for putting MP cost on the basic attacks? Just looking for a rep to clear this up, I can usually see the good in the changes the dev team makes but this one is completely lost on me.

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I've played Pugilist as well as Archer, although not all the way to 50, so I may not understand the full extent of the problem. But while archers do seem like premium damage dealers, they can't take a hit worth a darn. At least Pugilists have evasive abilities and strong natural health bars. They could potentially be great at evasion tanking with the right kind of support (if that is indeed the design philosophy behind them).

It's still on the official site here:
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/#/game.../pugilist/role

Basically, Pugilists should be able to sink deeper into an increasingly evasive or offensive stance depending on what abilities they use. I can't say I've been in a battle that lasted long enough to even notice how this works (or even if it does work), especially now that auto-attack has taken over.

It might not make pugilists the very best damage dealers at short fights, but for long boss fights, they might actually prove quite desirable depending on the potency of those stances.

It would be nice to hear what the future design philosophy is going to be in regards to this, however.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

IIt's still on the official site here:
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/#/game.../pugilist/role

Basically, Pugilists should be able to sink deeper into an increasingly evasive or offensive stance depending on what abilities they use. I can't say I've been in a battle that lasted long enough to even notice how this works (or even if it does work), especially now that auto-attack has taken over.

It might not make pugilists the very best damage dealers at short fights, but for long boss fights, they might actually prove quite desirable depending on the potency of those stances.

It would be nice to hear what the future design philosophy is going to be in regards to this, however.

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The stances never actually made it into the final game (which sucks, would have been a cool idea). And if I recall correctly, Pugilist is being tooled into a DD class per the new team.

And I agree that Pugilists and Marauders could use some buffing. They need to have the enemy focused on them in order to be able to perform DD at their maximum (and yet Gladiators are the actual tank class), while Lancer and Archer can deal much more damage without needing to have the enemy's attack cause a certain effect (evasion and parrying respectively) to make them able to use their low TP cost DD skills.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

I've played Pugilist as well as Archer, although not all the way to 50, so I may not understand the full extent of the problem. But while archers do seem like premium damage dealers, they can't take a hit worth a darn. At least Pugilists have evasive abilities and strong natural health bars. They could potentially be great at evasion tanking with the right kind of support (if that is indeed the design philosophy behind them).

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However aside from soloing Archers should never actually take a hit. Archers have the longest range in the game, they should use it. Pugilist is forced to be up front 100% of the time and does nowhere near the amount of damage an Archer does. From a balance standpoint, why use anything but Archer? I mean when you can do max damage at max range, there's no point in having other damage classes. They're out of harm's reach while doing more damage than all other melee classes.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

However aside from soloing Archers should never actually take a hit. Archers have the longest range in the game, they should use it. Pugilist is forced to be up front 100% of the time and does nowhere near the amount of damage an Archer does. From a balance standpoint, why use anything but Archer? I mean when you can do max damage at max range, there's no point in having other damage classes. They're out of harm's reach while doing more damage than all other melee classes.

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My answer might not fit the actual situation, but I'd expect the reason to be that while archers could breeze through short fights, they might not do too well in long ones (as in not living long enough to do much damage... the "glass cannon" problem).

I would expect (but it might not be the case) that Pugilists could either "warm up" to even higher damage than archers could dream of by increasing their offensive stance, or, if the case warrants it, become increasingly evasive instead if they take a defensive stance so as to tank (or help tank) a hit-like-a-truck mob. So while they might not be so great at sniping, you would want them around for tough, long fights because they can go the distance.

But I'm only reading the pamphlet as to what Pugilist should have been. I realize it may not actually be working out to be that anymore.