Please disable "Follow" inside duties.

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Originally Posted by Elim

It's not an exploit or cheating. You may think it should be considered that, but it doesn't make it so.

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I'll agree it isn't really cheating since it is a gameplay design but it most certainly is an exploit. No class in this game can become a 'pseudo-bot' to such a degree with /follow, that I'm sure it's balancing a fine line in breaching the ToS in regards to automated play. I'd genuinely be curious what a GM's stance is on this because while I doubt you'd get in trouble for utilizing this since no third-party program is used, I also doubt they would punish somebody for booting a SCH who afk followed an instance. If anything SE will probably ignore the issue until it becomes more widespread an toxic and are forced to butcher Eos/Selenes' heals when level synched.

Enh. I would consider it pretty widespread already. Ever since launch the fairies could heal low level dungeons solo. I always put on cleric stance and dps while just the letting fairies heal. I also don't consider it an exploit since it doesn't affect the game overall. We're talking low level dungeons here- once you get past level 30 it's a different story and if a person doesn't know how to heal they won't progress very far. If someone is afk healing you can kick them. That's why they added the vote kick function. I think a lot of people are exaggerating. It'd be one thing if you could do this all the way to level 50 but that's not the case. It's certainly not game breaking and far from toxic.

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Originally Posted by Manuka

Had to snip this due to length

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It's not an exploit. lol. Exploiting is cheating and you can be banned over that, knowingly or otherwise. Because other classes can't do it is not a valid argument. On a bard you can regen the parties mana by only clicking one button, /following then AFKing if you want, that's automated. No other class can do that but it's not an exploit. Sure a bard's song(or Eos) might be OP and should be nerfed in some of the public's opinion. Calling it an exploit and saying people should be banned over it(which was in someone else's post) is a little melodramatic. There are many other ways to approach this subject... why do it in this fashion?

SE has known about this since shortly after SCH were released into the game. It does not hold back the team from completing the content or make them suddenly jump to the end. It's a non-issue that sometimes drums up debate over video game ethics.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

False equivalence. dps job is to dps.

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More like a double standard. It's ok for healers to let fairy heal and AFK but not ok for DPS to just auto-attack. Hmmm..

I could care less about many of the general responses in this thread. You all are entitled to your opinion about how you should play your job in a low level dungeon, and others are entitled to kick you from their party if they feel it is harassment, or whatever the individual case may be.

However, please cite me where it says in the ToS, that is a breach of said ToS, for a DD to not use its skills? You quote that info, and you won't hear another word out of me, except for an apology for being wrong. Sound good? Otherwise, expect people with the same piss-poor attitude to join up with you from time to time, and /follow + auto-attack everything in the dungeon.

To use your cake analogy, you want your cake and you want to eat it too. However you are also trying to justify denying other people the fork....

Oh and btw, I'll be waiting for that ToS quote.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

Oh and btw, I'll be waiting for that ToS quote.

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I love how people fall back to the "it's not in the ToS" argument. It's not in the ToS no, but to expect other players to actually play the game when they are in a group with other people isn't absurd. It can be considered trolling, and it can be considered a form of harassment. It isn't black and white, and it doesn't have to be in the ToS to be considered poor behavior deemed unacceptable by the community. You're just relying on the ToS as some sort of excuse to justify terrible behavior. There are many things in the world that aren't illegal by the letter of the law, but are still taboo, immoral, and ethically terrible. By your rules those people are A-OK simply because they aren't against the letter of the law.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

And the fact that you'd be willing sacrifice your party because your healer isn't DPSing just makes you seem petty.

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No it doesn't make him petty it just means he's a proponent of active participation.

Sheeze, I've seen some really stupid crap come from these forums, but I have to say this thread truly takes the cake.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

snip

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Not sure if you are directing this at me, or quoting me and building upon it.

I used the ToS argument because that's what every healer in this thread has said. "It's not in the ToS for me to DPS as a healer" No, I'm sure it's not. AFKing while doing a dungeon, regardless of how menial someone thinks it is, is unethical and would probably be frowned upon by anyone it is happening to. But since "it isn't in the ToS", they feel that their actions are justified.

So I flipped the script. Show me where it says I need to use Heavy Shot even once in the ToS when I play Bard. Technically, my auto-attack is producing numbers calculated as damage, so in their logic I am doing my job and shouldn't be tagged for griefing anyone. They say "players aren't dying, things are being healed, what's the problem?" I say "mobs are dying, progress is being made, who tf cares if you think it isn't going fast enough?"

Personally, if a healer got into my party who was just /follow + fairy heal, I would wait until the end of the dungeon....and I mean the gate right before the last boss and initiate vote kick. Luckily, I don't need the ToS to tell me a healer is doing his/her job by AFKing and healing, I only need one other person to agree with me that healer is being unethical.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

BS over 9000

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i dont know how many times we have to say the same thing over and over. i addressed your first sentence already multiple times. fairy keeps the tank alive so he can tank, fairy keeps the dps so they can dps. the fairy is healing, so the healing role is being fulfilled, as you're not dying. i also mentioned the time factor so im not going to repeat it again.

WTF does ToS have anything to do with what i said? Never did i mention anything about terms of service or use tos as an argument to why a dps should dps. Oh and guess what? I have joined with people who heal and follow. know what we did? beat the dungeon. Not cry that the healer was still healing even though he not at the keyboard or alt-tabbed.

and yes, if i have a piece of cake, you can be sure that i will eat it. i will not just sit there and look at it. (always thought that analogy was dumb) Thus, heal and follow and keep the party alive/not waste time, but not give bonus time if i so choose. or heal in primals/coil and keep party alive/not waste time, but not give bonus time if i so choose.

a dps not dpsing is not taking away bonus time. it's taking away expected time. read the argument.


http://24.media.tumblr.com/324fc72d1...idc6o1_250.gif

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Originally Posted by Asael

No it doesn't make him petty it just means he's a proponent of active participation.

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Don't think endgame sch care about active participation in copperbell normal mode.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

Not sure if you are directing this at me, or quoting me and building upon it.

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Was more building tbh. I see people say this a lot and it's just funny to me that they think it means anything.

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Originally Posted by Elim

-snip-

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I meant exploit more as a design flaw/oversight but if you put it like that, then yeah you're cheating. If you're exploiting this for a reward with zero work besides entering an instance with a specific class, isn't much different than people using bots to gain more profit for minimal effort. And I don't understand the bard analogy. Do you realistically see a bard afk following in an instance and not get booted? I don't.

While I wouldn't like to see people banned for doing this I hope they fix it, it really is unfair to the other people stuck with you. Video game ethics or not, it's just a lame attitude and not something to be proud of.