Auto attack: A complete battle system

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

I have to agree with Betel. Where are you getting this statistic from? It's fine if you say a bunch of people are for AA, but it's premature and ignorant to assume that there isn't a sizable group of people that appreciate an active battle system based on a poll that is closed off to people who bought the game, have an active game account, and decided to answer the poll in the first place, and that isn't counting the people who DID post on the poll that they appreciated it.

For example, I've had a group of friends who are veterans of FFXI and several other entries in the series try FFXIV for an hour or so on different occasions, and most of them agree(4 out of 5) that they actually liked the active selection and armory system. These guys don't own a copy of the game or have an active FFXIV account. Where's their say?

Don't assume general unanimity without evidence thereof. It pretty much ruins arguments and perceptions of said arguers even if there's a HINT of truth to the person's argument.

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http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678

question 1: What do you feel are currently the most significant issues with the battle system? (up to three answers)

2nd biggest issue was "Spamming actions" just behind the lack of class uniqueness.

It speaks volumes for the active battle system is not liked.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

That's why the combat is not even close to the button mashing level of those games.

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I dislike Useless and Boreing button mashing, why have 20 actions when you only need 12? whats the point? does it make it harder ? no!, does it make it funner? I don't think so, does it make it harder to play on a controler? Yes and needlessly so?

Onlt thing I am missing is whydo you not want AA.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You think this game is like the pinnacle of button mashing for the consoles, when it's not even close.

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I think it is Useless button mashing not the pinnacle of button mashing. I swear they do not teach reading comprehension in school anymore ?

The actual gameplay becomes more about reflexes

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

and you don't have to think about what you're doing

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Actions I don't need to think about and go to muscle memory don't need to be there, seems pretty simple. If you put an action into the game it is to ADD something to the game or to add balance not grief your players. Show me what these action add to the game that can't be attained by something else and I will rethink my position.

"You're a console player and can't keep up, therefore we dumbed this game down for you. Enjoy." If you have an alternate reason for the current rendition of the combat system I would love to hear it. Also have you ever tried this on a controler ? you might want to try it lvl 30+ for fun, you might see what we are talking about.

Finally, if this game were challenging enough to hold my entire attention then communication and such might not be that bad but guess what FFXI and XIVs strengths have been community building, the current system doens't facilitate that and noone has givne me a reason why we shoudln't make it easier to communicate? What is so good about hte current system to make up for this decreased ability? If SE makes this game as interactive as other MMOs I would love to see that but it (doubt it) but would love to see it. People played XI for the community, not for the challenging content (there was very little) XIV has neither and a system that support neither.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

I'm not saying I have any quantitative evidence, and I'm also not saying an auto-attack couldn't work.

I'm just pointing out that automatically assuming that everyone is for something and nobody is for the alternative is a dangerous side effect of group think, and that given the very closed nature of the polls and the forums, it's natural that there's going to be a large group of people(including potential customers) that are excluded. It also makes the person making the assumption look dumb.

I also say this as a person guilty of it on a few other forum topics on other FFXIV forums.

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Agreed, generalizations are dangerous and erronous and genearlly a bad idea. Personally I try to stay away from them for the same reasons you mentioned. Personally I think that if the community can be quantative and where not possible, thoughtfully qualitative, we might be able to figure out what everone likes and doens't like about the game. Until that happens I don't see how we can expect SE to make changes to the game that will increase game participation.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678

question 1: What do you feel are currently the most significant issues with the battle system? (up to three answers)

2nd biggest issue was "Spamming actions" just behind the lack of class uniqueness.

It speaks volumes for the active battle system is not liked.

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...I'm pretty sure you didn't read the rest of my post if that's your response.

I'm not saying a bunch of people are for an auto-attack, I'm saying that due to the very closed nature of the polls and these forums, we can't say that anything is indicative of anything(including my perspective on the issue), and arguing the opposite makes you look totally irreverent to the opinions of people who don't get to post here/post in the polls, and thus makes you look dumb.

I'm not saying you are dumb, in fact I like some of your ideas on other stuff like BRs, but doing that makes your arguments look dumb.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

...I'm pretty sure you didn't read the rest of my post if that's your response.

I'm not saying a bunch of people are for an auto-attack, I'm saying that due to the very closed nature of the polls and these forums, we can't say that anything is indicative of anything(including my perspective on the issue), and arguing the opposite makes you look totally irreverent to the opinions of people who don't get to post here/post in the polls, and thus makes you look dumb.

I'm not saying you are dumb, in fact I like some of your ideas on other stuff like BRs, but doing that makes your arguments look dumb.

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Like most things in these forums we want to keep the good and toss the bad, ideas good, method of expressing them, not ideal. Chose better language so you can get your point across easier, I am guilty of this offence myself frequently. Thanks for picking it up Malak

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I dislike Useless and Boreing button mashing, why have 20 actions when you only need 12?

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Why reduce the amount of actions to fit the current difficulty of the game when you can raise the difficulty to fit the current amount of actions?

Why not change the UI to be able to perform 20 actions with 12 button presses instead of making us perform 12 actions with 12 button presses?

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I think it is Useless button mashing not the pinnacle of button mashing. I swear they do not teach reading comprehension in school anymore ?

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You are giving me lectures in English?

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Actions I don't need to think about and go to muscle memory don't need to be there

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Can you name an action that does not function this way? lol.

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If SE makes this game as interactive as other MMOs I would love to see that but it (doubt it) but would love to see it.

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Umm..

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Why reduce the amount of actions to fit the current difficulty of the game when you can raise the difficulty to fit the current amount of actions?

Why not change the UI to be able to perform 20 actions with 12 button presses instead of making us perform 12 actions with 12 button presses?


Can you name an action that does not function this way? lol.


You are giving me lectures in English?

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Yea not my best writing, I am in China and it is 2 AM what do you want from me.

As for English, If your going to quote something, don't take it out of context, think of what it means with the rest of text, if you think I thought that FFXIV was the pinnacle of button mashing, you might want to work on your reading skills.

If your combat system requires damage phases or aggro whipes or knockbacks that interupt rotations or such then muscle memory can be greatly reduced. Once again why remember 20 actions when you only need 12. I personally dont' want more than 15 commands a min in FFXI, if I wanted 20-30 I woudl of stayed with WoW, but as WoW has shown that makes it hard to build a community. Also wow donesn't play on a console as well. DOn't get me wrong I like WoW, and they do a lto of things right but the system doens't lend itself well to community, a point you keep refusing to talk about other then get VOIP.

I have asked at least 3 times now in various threads why AA is bad with 0 quantifiable reasons.

When I reply to a post I try to answer all point raised, granted sometimes I can't for length or time purpose, but you keep forgeting to answer this one simple question we all want to hear.

WHY IS NO AA a good thing?

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if you think I thought that FFXIV was the pinnacle of button mashing, you might want to work on your reading skills.

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Then you shouldn't compare games that require more button mashing (and as the result do not require as much communication) with a game that requires more communication but doesn't require as much button mashing. But it's okay, as you are in China.

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as WoW has shown that makes it hard to build a community.

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And then you go and assume this is why the above (unproven) statement is true. Factors such as you can solo till max level, leveling alts is encouraged so the servers will be filled with people that have multiple characters with different names, and the auto-group feature that makes grouping across servers possible, making you group with players you will never meet again don't affect the outcome, right? If you can prove that what you propose is why "WoW doesn't have a good community", then please do so.

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WHY IS NO AA a good thing?

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"Why AA is a bad thing" = "Why no AA is a good thing". What's the point as the former has been discussed times and times again?

Combat becomes more automated, this is not acceptable.
The game is dumbed down for PC players for the sake of console players.
The game is dumbed down because the servers can't handle anything more complex than half-automated combat system.
The game is dumbed down so that players can chat using text-based functions instead of using a voice chat like every other MMORPG in existence.
The change requires resources and time and the end result is what was listed above.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Then you shouldn't compare games that require more button mashing (and as the result do not require as much communication) with a game that requires more communication but doesn't require as much button mashing. But it's okay, as you are in China.


And then you go and assume this is why the above (unproven) statement is true. Factors such as you can solo till max level, leveling alts is encouraged so the servers will be filled with people that have multiple characters with different names, and the auto-group feature that makes grouping across servers possible, making you group with players you will never meet again don't affect the outcome, right? If you can prove that what you propose is why "WoW doesn't have a good community", then please do so.



"Why AA is a bad thing" = "Why no AA is a good thing". What's the point as the former has been discussed times and times again?

Combat becomes more automated, this is not acceptable.
The game is dumbed down for PC players for the sake of console players.
The game is dumbed down because the servers can't handle anything more complex than half-automated combat system.
The game is dumbed down so that players can chat using text-based functions instead of using a voice chat like every other MMORPG in existence.
The change requires resources and time and the end result is what was listed above.

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What is complex about hitting "Standard Attack" 5 times in a row?

And sorry...the game is supposed to come out on PS3...PS3 doesn't come with Built in Voice Chat on games that work CROSS platform with PC...so there will be no Voice Chat for PS3 players, cause it wouldn't work, unless its a Client Side built in Voice Chat like in WoW(which nobody uses...)

I'm neither Pro, or Contra Auto Attack...but if you want to argue, give valid arguments...saying the game is dumbed down for console players is just stupid...FFXI involved and still involves more tactic and strategy than anything in FFXIV right now and it is "dumbed down" for console players as well. Plus mindlessly spamming one and the same button is not adding "complexity" to the game.

Way too many people in here are getting too personal, everyone has something to say, everyone thinks he/she knows it all and it's has to be right. It reminds me of HNM linkshells in FFXI, Cocky bastards.

You all should try auto attack before walking all over it, no one has even seen what XIV is like with it. If it's bad well then everyone should atleast agree on one thing for once. :)