XIV WAR Tanking - Baseline Mitigation and PLD comparison

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

So, Javid, your defence is essentially "I want to be carried, because my class is bad and I want the healers to work for it."

Why should the rest of the community cater to that?

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My "defense" was I disagree that Warrior; has to be "carried" through content. I simply made a correction to his saying. IFF we "warriors" were being carried THROUGH end-game (titan+ beyond content as main tank). This would still demonstrate that the WArrior Party is showing more effort, focus, resolve, than that of a similar PLD group.


The community as a WHOLE doesn't want any ONE thing....or we'd not be having this thread page 4 (of the infinite WAR vs PLD comparison)......so community is divided on what they want.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

@Javid


I think it's ingenuous to expect your party to compensate for a weakness in the mechanics of your class - a weakness that is in no way directly mirrored in your corresponding tank role; Paladin.

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"ingenuous" ??? com' on!!! What is this? We're not at boot camp taking turns at the water fountain on a 5 minute break and someone chooses to take 2 minutes to rehydrate.

The correct term is challenge. Some players WANT the challenge. And respectively other dont want to bother with the drag. That is player's individual prerogative. Free to stick it out test their mettle or re que. Well new WArriors that hit this End game WALL of a challenge will discover if they have what it takes to go forward or re- roll as a PLD .

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

50% Attack Power is absolutely not 50% damage, FYI. It's weaker than you're estimating.

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This is to be determine. We don't have any solid information on how attack Power scales to actual dmg. Again I said IFF it's a linear correlation; IF attack power, like str is to parry, has tiers then.... that sucks ass.... but again lets get some numbers and find out how MUCH weaker it maybe than 50% dmg

I don't have anything higher than Titan to boast about personally. I've tank Titan at 6.2k HP & at 7.1k;

LET ME TELL YOU.....THAT 6.2K; you can make NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO mistakes; none; Healers included

After Titan phase 5 does his bomb formation he's coming for you and if you weren't smart enough to start buidling your hp pass 5500 for the 800 punch he'll do, followed by rock buster(left hand bitch slap) for 1k+ then the 4.5k mountain in your face.... you dead.... that simple.

my healers were experience both times so it was fun and exciting for everyone in party who was thrill that defeated Titan with a WAR main.

FYI: Mountain in your face is on a minute rotation; you can IBx3 by then to help mitigate the dmg.


yes yes you're still taking dmg from tumult and 2 other 800 dps ; but this is why it's key you absorb the proper HP at the right time. For example I never use Conval with Wrath 15%; that is excessive; and should only be done if you are about to get that MOUNTAIN SLAP and you need that 5.5k HP NOOOOOWWWWWW!!

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Originally Posted by javid

This is to be determine. We don't have any solid information on how attack Power scales to actual dmg. Again I said IFF it's a linear correlation; IF attack power, like str is to parry, has tiers then.... that sucks ass.... but again lets get some numbers and find out how MUCH weaker it maybe than 50% dmg

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It takes like 4 seconds to test. Hit mob, pop Berserk, hit mob. It will be well below a 50% increase.

Berserk is nowhere near powerful enough to warrant the pacify at the end of it's effect. It's a pretty great example of the terrible design that plagues this game. Fight or Flight gives more damage AND has no downside.

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Berserk with a smart healer is marginally better than FoF. Esuna HEALER...ESUNA....WArriors need it.

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Ok let's talk about esuna on the pacify

1) Healer has to sit there with gcd clear, ready to cleanse the pacify.
2) Healer uses esuna, the animation plays, pacify is finally registered as being cured
3) In exchange for this, you get a whole ONE EXTRA ABILITY OFF because of the delay on esuna.

How is a tank getting to use one extra weapon skill worth even remotely worth all of that bother?

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Originally Posted by javid

Berserk with a smart healer is marginally better than FoF. Esuna HEALER...ESUNA....WArriors need it.

Nevertheless; Fight or Flight is less hassle and the "EASIER" skill (I myself prefer it to berserk overall; BUT NOT SITUATIONAL; which is the main reason bersker is used- to max IB)

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2 things. First off, if you're doing real content your healers aren't going to have "free" GCD's to cast esuna to remove a debuff you put on yoruself that's really of little consequence. And again, this is an example of WAR skills making it more difficult for the rest of your party, not for the warrior themselves. You're not relying on YOUR skill to make good use of Berserk. You are relying on other people.

Point two, you would be incredibly stupid to prefer Berserk to Fight or Flight.

Fight or Flight is slightly less damage increase lategame (30% for FoF, 35-40% with berserk), but it has the same cooldown, no downside, and 10 second longer duration. Fight or Flight works out to 10% increased DPS/Enmity if used on cooldown. Berserk works out to about 3-4% if used on cooldown.

Unchained is another example of a skill that's not only less potent, but also carries a bunch of situational downsides. Berserk and Unchained combined don't match the contribution to damage that fight or flight gives you.

So again, it's not about "using the skills better". It's just about the skills being objectively significantly worse, and having usage complications on top of being worse.

In short, you really don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you just haven't thought about it that much. You might think the mechanics are better, but the argument you're making is akin to someone saying they would prefer to do 8 dps instead of 10 dps. It's nonsensical in terms of game mechanics.

Flight or flight is awesome. So many uses for it. Berserk... not so much.

Only level 28 mrd but the only use I can find for berserk is solo or when in group when I know everything will be dead by the time it is up. The restrictions on it hurt way to much.

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Originally Posted by Faction

Berserk is nowhere near powerful enough to warrant the pacify at the end of it's effect. It's a pretty great example of the terrible design that plagues this game. Fight or Flight gives more damage AND has no downside.



Ok let's talk about esuna on the pacify

1) Healer has to sit there with gcd clear, ready to cleanse the pacify.
2) Healer uses esuna, the animation plays, pacify is finally registered as being cured
3) In exchange for this, you get a whole ONE EXTRA ABILITY OFF because of the delay on esuna.

How is a tank getting to use one extra weapon skill worth even remotely worth all of that bother?

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dude.... esuna is 1 sec cast. the effect is instant. and I have a macro I shoot before my berserk is down tellingthem "Esuna / Leeches can I have it".
its 5 sec/ that's 2 ws; and 2 weaponskill matters in a hate rotation. IE Titan fight you just used up berserk as he flew into the sky and now pacification just happens to be up when he lands....provoke/flash is NOT gonna re establish hate.... healers can die...

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

2 things. First off, if you're doing real content your healers aren't going to have "free" GCD's to cast esuna to remove a debuff you put on yoruself that's really of little consequence. And again, this is an example of WAR skills making it more difficult for the rest of your party, not for the warrior themselves. You're not relying on YOUR skill to make good use of Berserk. You are relying on other people.
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....why does everyone this forum love their insults..... ITS A GAME PPL. Why do ppl have to be stupid for this or that?

Anyways....by your own admission....If you want to max Inner Beast absorb...and you had a choice between both abilities......which would u choice......Now that you agreed with my OP.....I guess we are both "real stupid" for both picking Berserk to excuse an Inner beast.

No where in my OP did i say anything about mechanics.....

And sticking to the POINT.... the IDEA BEING DISCUSS which skill is the superior skill. AND i SAID FIGHT OR FLIGHT IS BETTTTTTTTTTEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR.RRRRRRRRR

but if you want to MAX your Inner Beast absorb berserk will out shine FoF.

That is all i said....

where is all that other stuff coming from??

"you don't know what you're talking about".....
really....guy....really.... this skills are so complex that I need TIME to sit and mediate on each skills potential and usage....

And healers, affective healers do have time to case esuna/ leech on request and if you develop a noticable pattern they can que command....which my parties have done b/c I give them a very steady pattern to its usage when possible.

Last I check Titan Fights matters....