Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

too bad. art is something that should be enjoyed by everybody

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Hence the "take permission" part?

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

A vast majority of online artists disagree with you, sir. Moreover, unless you yourself are one, your point is moot.

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You'll find that their disagreement is fairly irrelevant to the realities of the situation, i.e. that by putting it in such a format they have no real recourse if someone chooses to re-share it, so it comes with the territory - and you'll also find that second statement is fallacious.

Now if we're talking about putting it to commercial uses, then you might have a case, but it's clearly not the situation here.

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Btw, assuming you think like that, the viera in your signature is also being used with no permission, am I wrong? OP is certainly smarter than you than just use it for the first post without the artist's permission.

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I'm sure the artist is delighted to see his work all over the FFXIV forum. :)

Again, there is no requirement to gain permission to share stuff freely available online - you just claimed many artists dislike it when that happens. The solution in that case is to lock stuff behind paywalls like Patreon or not put it in public venues like Twitter. Attribution to the artist is plainly visible in the sig.

Now, if you're done with the attempt at a lecture...

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

And that arguement is valid why exactly? Does warning someone in the act such a bad thing? Or do you really just have hate pointed towards me, in contradiction to your previous claims? Hm?
Even that "credit" is earned through permission, or do you just not have common sense?

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It's simply an odd claim to make at this point in the thread. I'm just questioning the timing of it. My view is that as long as the artist is credited, linking art here is perfectly acceptable so long as it isn't anything NSFW. Many artists adore being credited and having their work shared for exposure. Generally speaking anything uploaded online is going to run the risk of being shared. That's just the nature of the internet.

As for 'hate', as I mentioned earlier in the thread I don't tend to bother expending the energy required to hate someone over internet disagreements! Apologies in advance if that is somehow disappointing to you.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

You'll find that their disagreement is fairly irrelevant to the realities of the situation, i.e. that by putting it in such a format they have no real recourse if someone chooses to re-share it, so it comes with the territory - and you'll also find that second statement is fallacious.

Now if we're talking about putting it to commercial uses, then you might have a case, but it's clearly not the situation here.

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Spew what you want, it's not even a comment concerning you guys but seeing how triggered you are, you probably ain't gonna listen, so there's no point in conversing over it at this point.

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

triggered

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Ah, yes. I was wondering when that particular argument would be made. If you're upset and seeing controversies where there are none, I would recommend taking the time to make a nice cup of tea. That's always a great way to cool off when the urge to throw false accusations at other posters arises.

Please keep the thread civil. If you want to disagree with somebody, that is perfectly fine - though please try to do so in a constructive manner. I do not wish to see this thread locked.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Ah, yes. I was wondering when that particular argument would be made. If you're upset and seeing controversies where there are none, I would recommend taking the time to make a nice cup of tea. That's always a great way to cool off when the urge to throw false accusations at other posters arises.

Please keep the thread civil. If you want to disagree with somebody, that is perfectly fine - though please try to do so in a constructive manner.

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Telling me to cool off and denying you guys ain't even triggered?
Ooh, scary taunts. smh

Maybe a nice mint tea would soothe the nerves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

Telling me to cool off and denying you guys ain't even triggered?
Ooh, scary taunts. smh

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It was merely a friendly suggestion. There's quite a few blends that I could recommend if you so desire. Fortnum & Mason have a particularly great range.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Viera drink tea?

tea is basically leaf water so signs point to yes


on topic:
After playing with the benchmark quite a bit I hope that male viera would have the option for some signs pointing to harsh lives like notches in their ears or facial scars or give them the missing claws ;w; I made myself a boyish bunny to hold me over, but theres no real character creation options to make one look scruffier outside the soot facepaint.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

tea is basically leaf water so signs point to yes


on topic:
After playing with the benchmark quite a bit I hope that male viera would have the option for some signs pointing to harsh lives like notches in their ears or facial scars or give them the missing claws ;w; I made myself a boyish bunny to hold me over, but theres no real character creation options to make one look scruffier outside the soot facepaint.

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I wish that as for special options, male viera will have the crystal thingie female viera have and I'd love to be able to choose color for that just like how we do for ears clasps (I think they're called that? The miqote silver earthingies) or maybe patches of fur (that you can toogle on and off) or maybe even claws

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Originally Posted by zeylos

In my opinion at least, if hey for some reason decided to go for hrotgar over viera, then they should have done full hrotgar. Either that or just like how you said increased their manpower to get 2 full races

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Full Hrothgar probably would have been the best idea, in my opinion. Having looked at Viera in the benchmark, I still don't see the appeal of them. They're just tall women with rabbit ears and they make me wish we got female Hrothgar instead...

But that's just my opinion. We're getting Viera even though I still hate them and I'm hoping one day SE will make the opposite genders playable (and not make female Hrothgars Miqo'te 2.0. Do what GW2 did with the Charr, SE!).

I guess my main wish now is extended customisation options for the older races and graphics upgrades. Whilst I’d like to see male Viera and female Hrothgar, my desire is for those things to take priority... they may even ease their addition later down the line, if it enables them to scale the assets more easily.

As of today; show your Viera = 53 pages. Show your Hrothgar 19 pages. Something tells me they should have just made Viera both genders and forget about the second cat race.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

As of today; show your Viera = 53 pages. Show your Hrothgar 19 pages. Something tells me they should have just made Viera both genders and forget about the second cat race.

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They should have made full Hrothgar.
What exists in female Viera that do not already exist in all the other humaniod female race counterparts besides the drag and drop rabbit ears ? Don't get me wrong, I want mViera and will forever be for them but the show your Viera thread has me unimpressed. They look humans with drag and drop rabbit ears that even looking like it could just be a headband accessory. They also look more like supermodels rather than a race that lives how they live and might be a bit rough or even somewhat wild looking.

Matter of fact, they could have as others said revamped the entire creation system and made a larger percent of people more content.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

As of today; show your Viera = 53 pages. Show your Hrothgar 19 pages. Something tells me they should have just made Viera both genders and forget about the second cat race.

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agreed =( thats what they should have done....

Al though some are now saying “hrothgar should of been added instead” I still disagree and I like how the females look, they don’t exactly look like 12’s but I still enjoy them and still want male viera, I found a picture on Twitter that’s pretty cool (I do wish for a tall and more dominant looking face) but I don’t mind if this is an option. Same for the fur patch it can hopefully be an option.

https://twitter.com/riesssene/status...816876032?s=21

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

As of today; show your Viera = 53 pages. Show your Hrothgar 19 pages. Something tells me they should have just made Viera both genders and forget about the second cat race.

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I wish people would stop saying stuff like this. Hrothgar have proven to be quite popular. Go look at any of the 'Show Your <Insert Race Here>' threads and you'll see that most of the posts are of female characters. Yet that doesn't mean that male characters aren't popular - because they are. There's simply an unfortunate trend for female characters to be posted and praised more than male characters.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I wish people would stop saying stuff like this. Hrothgar have proven to be quite popular. Go look at any of the 'Show Your <Insert Race Here>' threads and you'll see that most of the posts are of female characters. Yet that doesn't mean that male characters aren't popular - because they are. There's simply an unfortunate trend for female characters to be posted and praised more than male characters.

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Theodric, I'll not tell you again to take your logic and apply it somewhere else.
baps

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

They should have made full Hrothgar.
What exists in female Viera that do not already exist in all the other humaniod female race counterparts besides the drag and drop rabbit ears ? Don't get me wrong, I want mViera and will forever be for them but the show your Viera thread has me unimpressed. They look humans with drag and drop rabbit ears that even looking like it could just be a headband accessory. They also look more like supermodels rather than a race that lives how they live and might be a bit rough or even somewhat wild looking.

Matter of fact, they could have as others said revamped the entire creation system and made a larger percent of people more content.

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I really get exhausted of the 'humans with x ears' response. Viera have distinct noses, facial shapes, ears that are properly rooted better than some Miqo'te hairstyles, a body type we don't have in-game yet, aloof animation personality that suits the rabbit theme quite well, and a whole slew of other things. As much as I'd love an updated character creator across the board, pretending Viera aren't filling a new niche when they clearly are isn't going to get us anywhere closer.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

They also look more like supermodels rather than a race that lives how they live and might be a bit rough or even somewhat wild looking.

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Female Viera primarily live deep in the woods in a civilized matriarchal society, far away from any sort of rugged life like the men lead. Their appearance is entirely appropriate.

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Originally Posted by rachcouture

I really get exhausted of the 'humans with x ears' response. Viera have distinct noses, facial shapes, ears that are properly rooted better than some Miqo'te hairstyles, a body type we don't have in-game yet, aloof animation personality that suits the rabbit theme quite well, and a whole slew of other things. As much as I'd love an updated character creator across the board, pretending Viera aren't filling a new niche when they clearly are isn't going to get us anywhere closer.



Female Viera primarily live deep in the woods in a civilized matriarchal society, far away from any sort of rugged life like the men lead. Their appearance is entirely appropriate.

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If you get exhausted of it because it's said so often, then most likely there must be a point to it. The fact stands that they are yet another humanoid race when in fact as we all know the true intended race was Hrothgar.

Niche ? Sure, call it what you want. But it'll forever be a race done on the pure basis of fan service.

Also, I think you confuse a rough/wild look with rugged. One can look wild/otherwordly compared to the humanoids in game. A part from the ears, one would easily see just a another form of human.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

If you get exhausted of it because it's said so often, then most likely there must be a point to it. The fact stands that they are yet another humanoid race when in fact as we all know the true intended race was Hrothgar.

Niche ? Sure, call it what you want. But it'll forever be a race done on the pure basis of fan service.

Also, I think you confuse a rough/wild look with rugged. One can look wild/otherwordly compared to the humanoids in game. A part from the ears, one would easily see just a another form of human.

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Lots of people saying something doesn't make it any more correct.

Viera have existed in the lore of FF titles for years now, the choice to include them in XIV is based on that popularity and Fran as a fan favorite from XII.

You see a human with ears, we see a unique set of facial features, proportions and a personality conveyed through emotes that both appeals to us and isn't well represented within XIV without them.

We really can't wish for something without bashing on something else, huh.

I feel for those who wanted male Viera, truly, but if I said, idk, we lost badass amazonian cat women in favor of generic nekomimi waifu #3*, I'd sound like a douche, right? now look at yourself in the mirror.

Hrothgar are here to stay and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Accept it, move on, and let's hope they add the missing genders later on.

*For the record, I love the Viera too

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

Lots of people saying something doesn't make it any more correct.

Viera have existed in the lore of FF titles for years now, the choice to include them in XIV is based on that popularity and Fran as a fan favorite from XII.

You see a human with ears, we see a unique set of facial features, proportions and a personality conveyed through emotes that both appeals to us and isn't well represented within XIV without them.

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Ah, but it's not about being correct. It's about the point of it all.
The choice to include them was based on the team's consideration of pleasing the fanbase, thus fanservice.

I am not against people who want to play female Viera, I myself support the race itself and the addition of mViera.
This is simply an opinion the state of female Viera. You see what you see. I see what I see. And the world goes on.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

We really can't wish for something without bashing on something else, huh.

I feel for those who wanted male Viera, truly, but if I said, idk, we lost badass amazonian cat women in favor of generic nekomimi waifu #3*, I'd sound like a douche, right? now look at yourself in the mirror.

Hrothgar are here to stay and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Accept it, move on, and let's hope they add the missing genders later on.

*For the record, I love the Viera too

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You're not gonna get through to some of them. Lets face it, the female Hrothy thread was only created to be "fair". The true colors of the fanatics really shine through on this thread with their constant harping of how the Hroth should have never even existed. I think, even limited, they look damn good and I look forward to seeing them just as much as I looking forward to playing Viera.

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Originally Posted by LittleChickenNugget

You're not gonna get through to some of them. Lets face it, the female Hrothy thread was only created to be "fair". The true colors of the fanatics really shine through on this thread with their constant harping of how the Hroth should have never even existed. I think, even limited, they look damn good and I look forward to seeing them just as much as I looking forward to playing Viera.

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That's how I think of it, Viera already done in 12 so I know what to expect, though new race wondering what they are going to do as for story, I want to see more new races even if it doesn't match the counter part just so it opens up the story much more instead of getting 1 race and dry content.

Viera would of never existed even after those votes but people pushed that they were offered Viera but SE never said they would break character and gave them what they wanted but it isn't good enough but when is it good enough cause if they made it overweight, bald, hairy, too short, too tall, not good looking its never good enough always going to have some issues and those who keep asking get what they want then turns out they don't play it because the way SE released it then its just a character wasted when another character could of filled the slot with different lore and story which would be brand new.

to say it will look and be the same as Viera female is just not going to happen its up to SE how it will look even if its overweight or small nobody has ever seen a male Viera so they could put spin on it.

I see them as the male mithra of FFXI they said male Mithra stay at home to raise the children while the women formed the political and warrior classes.

sounds almost the same as FF12 the viera women were warriors the guys are home and only come when needed.

they are like couch potato's so forget muscular they aren't needed on battlefield they are stay at home fathers.


you have others who say it shouldn't follow the lore and some stuff can be broken, but this is their story and its the world of final fantasy and it also seems to tie in with other things, its like saying oh cloud shows up to the world but he doesn't wield his buster sword instead people want him to have black hair and wielding a crow bar with a eye patch and a hook for the other hand and demand it be done that lore shouldn't matter its what they want cause they pay.

i just want it to be left to SE to do the story, that's why we have so many great games they never had issues before making content everyone likes why change it, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

Ah, but it's not about being correct. It's about the point of it all.
The choice to include them was based on the team's consideration of pleasing the fanbase, thus fanservice.

I am not against people who want to play female Viera, I myself support the race itself and the addition of mViera.
This is simply an opinion the state of female Viera. You see what you see. I see what I see. And the world goes on.

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I don't believe that every decision the devs make at the behest of the players is fanservice. People complained at SB launch about SCH MP cost and SE fixed it in response but that isnt fansercvice. Fanservice carries a negative connotation about gratuitous and uncharacteristic sexual content. The classic "anime beach episode" style of content.

I don't think female Viera fall into this at all. Their racial gear is literally Fran's outfit from XII and while it's certainly very revealing it only shows a similar amount of skin to Miqote. There is no evidence that outside of that racial gear female Viera will be any more sexualized than any other race in the game.

I don't think you're against the addition of Viera I just think you're painting them in a really unflattering light without any real basis to do so. It isnt helping to quench the fire that's been lit between mViera and Hrothgar supporters so I thought I'd give my 2 cents on it is all.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I wish people would stop saying stuff like this. Hrothgar have proven to be quite popular. Go look at any of the 'Show Your <Insert Race Here>' threads and you'll see that most of the posts are of female characters. Yet that doesn't mean that male characters aren't popular - because they are. There's simply an unfortunate trend for female characters to be posted and praised more than male characters.

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This. I mean hell ... Femroe are the least played anything in this game and I'm sure we account for more than 70% of the "Show your Roe" pic post. Tis the very nature of the the "post something and gosh over it" trend that leans heavily towards females for a clear reason.

People need to let go of this childish fight against Hrothgar where they basically root for the down fall of the first truly unique race introduced in this game just cause they didn't get what they wanted. If anything people should be rooting for them ... cause you know damn well you're not getting Viera bois (by like 7.0 at the earliest) without Hrothgar females at this point.

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Originally Posted by rachcouture

I really get exhausted of the 'humans with x ears' response. Viera have distinct noses, facial shapes, ears that are properly rooted better than some Miqo'te hairstyles, a body type we don't have in-game yet, aloof animation personality that suits the rabbit theme quite well, and a whole slew of other things. As much as I'd love an updated character creator across the board, pretending Viera aren't filling a new niche when they clearly are isn't going to get us anywhere closer..

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Ehhh, as someone who has wanted Viera from the start the Viera we got don't add much of anything to this game. The only thing they truly add is the ability to make black females in this game. That by it's self is a huge plus for me being a black person but yeah ... that's it.

The ears look like clip-ons because they don't animate. they are far too stiff which is why I made mine short ... cause moving around with 2 foot long knives coming out of the top of your skull is a nope from me.
Persona wise they were given the reserved "Class Representative" anime girl trope treatment. They barely emote in the animations we have so it's not very impressive. Sure, no other race has that trope but it's not a terribly interesting trope to begin with and there are much more entertaining personas to bring to this game.

I'm glad we got em cause black girl magic and all but I can't help but wonder how amazing Female Hrothgar would be when I look at how impressive and expressive the males animation and looks are.

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Originally Posted by Yana-Chan

Al though some are now saying “hrothgar should of been added instead” I still disagree and I like how the females look, they don’t exactly look like 12’s but I still enjoy them and still want male viera, I found a picture on Twitter that’s pretty cool (I do wish for a tall and more dominant looking face) but I don’t mind if this is an option. Same for the fur patch it can hopefully be an option.

https://twitter.com/riesssene/status...816876032?s=21

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This looks pretty neat. Although the coloration is a bit questionable since they live in forests rather than savannas. Duskwights don't apply to this logic so I don't know though.

Both Rava and Veena have at least one row of grey skin tones, which is prolly where they got the base color from. LOVE their idea of the chest floof & claws :o

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

I don't believe that every decision the devs make at the behest of the players is fanservice. People complained at SB launch about SCH MP cost and SE fixed it in response but that isnt fansercvice. Fanservice carries a negative connotation about gratuitous and uncharacteristic sexual content. The classic "anime beach episode" style of content.

I don't think female Viera fall into this at all. Their racial gear is literally Fran's outfit from XII and while it's certainly very revealing it only shows a similar amount of skin to Miqote. There is no evidence that outside of that racial gear female Viera will be any more sexualized than any other race in the game.

I don't think you're against the addition of Viera I just think you're painting them in a really unflattering light without any real basis to do so. It isnt helping to quench the fire that's been lit between mViera and Hrothgar supporters so I thought I'd give my 2 cents on it is all.

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Fanservice doesn't always carry sexual connotations. And in this case fanservice alludes to the inclusion of female Viera for the sake of the fanbase. Also, I never stated anything about sexualization comparisons about female Viera. I don't have any issues about how people dress their character male or female. Hell I'm a half clothed Elezen male with a ponytail for crying out loud.

It is my opinion that they are unflattering to me. The basis is my opinion after having seen them in the threads and making several of my own.
Nothing will quell this debate upon mViera and fHrothgar, I'm just calmly stating my opinion here. SE did that to themselves and it's their problem to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Attribution to the artist is plainly visible in the sig.

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Because you edited it. lmao

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

If you get exhausted of it because it's said so often, then most likely there must be a point to it. The fact stands that they are yet another humanoid race when in fact as we all know the true intended race was Hrothgar.

Niche ? Sure, call it what you want. But it'll forever be a race done on the pure basis of fan service.

Also, I think you confuse a rough/wild look with rugged. One can look wild/otherwordly compared to the humanoids in game. A part from the ears, one would easily see just a another form of human.

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They can fill all the unique niches in the world - the only thing that matters is their eventual uptake, as reflected in what % of active characters they comprise. I’m sure SE have a target for them to be considered a success.

I think the male Viera will/would look something like this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7tmv4bUYAA6YwW.jpg

don't yell at me. it's a joke

Well all I know is I'll be crossdressing as a M'viera till the day they come out..

I guess the raincoat and travel coat are baggy enough to hide the chest if I make it the smallest option.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

They can fill all the unique niches in the world - the only thing that matters is their eventual uptake, as reflected in what % of active characters they comprise. I’m sure SE have a target for them to be considered a success.

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Also, just to clarify this goes for both, since the ‘unique niche’ thing keeps coming up for Hrothgar. I’ve no issues with their addition but this needs to be tempered by statistical reality. They could prove vastly more popular than roes and I am hoping both races do well so SE has an incentive to add the missing genders, and maybe more customisation, and we will likely get a picture of this into 5.1 or a bit later. Until then we can but speculate. However, a ‘unique niche’ in and of itself guarantees nothing.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

They can fill all the unique niches in the world - the only thing that matters is their eventual uptake

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Also, just to clarify this goes for both, since the ‘unique niche’ thing keeps coming up for Hrothgar. I’ve no issues with their addition but this needs to be tempered by statistical reality.

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The only thing that matters is giving players more avenues to express themselves with a well rounded roster of body types and archetypes.
Like sure, Femroe are next to invisible to most players ... but we deserve to have been added as it gives the game a big af beefy woman for those who want that. Would we be more played if they went with a different model and different animations? Who knows, culturally this game's Player base leans hard on the cute for females so IDK. But we offer something to the game that needed filling.

Once the devs feel that a well rounded roster of body types and archetypes has been achieved there's far less reason to add more races as it needlessly adds stress to the dev team for the most expensive cosmetic to make and manage.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

They should have made full Hrothgar.
What exists in female Viera that do not already exist in all the other humaniod female race counterparts besides the drag and drop rabbit ears ? Don't get me wrong, I want mViera and will forever be for them but the show your Viera thread has me unimpressed. They look humans with drag and drop rabbit ears that even looking like it could just be a headband accessory. They also look more like supermodels rather than a race that lives how they live and might be a bit rough or even somewhat wild looking.

Matter of fact, they could have as others said revamped the entire creation system and made a larger percent of people more content.

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they should have done that only if they're actually able to do a full hrotgar race fine, but it dosen't seem like that from what we've seen

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

The only thing that matters is giving players more avenues to express themselves with a well rounded roster of body types and archetypes.
Like sure, Femroe are next to invisible to most players ... but we deserve to have been added as it gives the game a big af beefy woman for those who want that. Would we be more played if they went with a different model and different animations? Who knows, culturally this game's Player base leans hard on the cute for females so IDK. But we offer something to the game that needed filling.

Once the devs feel that a well rounded roster of body types and archetypes has been achieved there's far less reason to add more races as it needlessly adds stress to the dev team for the most expensive cosmetic to make and manage.

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What you have stated is clearly the reason why SE should have only gone with 1 race, be it whichever it was. Males don't have a proper tall elegant option (elezen are giraffes, roes are not elegants, au ra is certainly not 'elegant', they're cool though, miqote is short, higlanders are not elegant at all, midlanders are short and lalafell is obviously not on the list) but the females did have something that, while not super elegant, was still much more elegant than males (femroe are like amazons in my eyes for instance). Then, the devs had 2 options: give both males and females what they have been asking for (an elegant body type given from a super popular race as viera) for both genders or give the fans what we feel they need to make this game's world more fantastic and creative and give them a full hrotgar for both genders. They chose only to do 1 gender. In fact, if we are going by filled niches, it would have made more sense to give us female hrotgar and male viera, since while there is male au ra and male roes as kinda bestial thing, for females there's only blue skin cat waifus, and then the other character has to be of the other gender, plus males have 0 elegance whatsoever (some might say midlander, but I don't really see them like that) while females, while not tall, have au ra, female miqo'te, and some say even femroe. All of the previous makes this more of a mistake than anything on my eyes, and all of those who want it should continue to push to have them for 6.0 and we will see when the dev team makes them

I don't want Hrothgar removed; I want Hrothgar completed. If Hrothgar was their original idea to add first, then they should have added Hrothgar and added Viera in at a later date where it would have made sense to do so. Sadly due to the 24man regarding tactics, they included Fran. This inclusion, in my opinion, was a mistake. The NPC should have been Vaan, Ashe or Balthier. I don't like Hrothgar for their appearance - but their culture and society please me - but this shouldn't give me a reason to crap on them. And yes, I hated them before, I was entirely against Hrothgar, but I've since changed my mind. At this point, Hrothgar should have been completed first to give females an option that hasn't been catered for yet. Stoic, burly, tall and animalistic - that's if they go that route. This scenario is to balance out the mess that was female Au'ra. The animalistic type races shouldn't be pushed down to the minimal heights; this is for both genders. Miqo'te - and sadly fAura - is enough.

Tldr; Viera should have been held back and released fully in 6.0 with a Viera male being a critical NPC that could have been introduced by cinematics. And there is no need for more animal humanoid races to be small like Miqote.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Also, just to clarify this goes for both, since the ‘unique niche’ thing keeps coming up for Hrothgar. I’ve no issues with their addition but this needs to be tempered by statistical reality. They could prove vastly more popular than roes and I am hoping both races do well so SE has an incentive to add the missing genders, and maybe more customisation, and we will likely get a picture of this into 5.1 or a bit later. Until then we can but speculate. However, a ‘unique niche’ in and of itself guarantees nothing.

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I agree that there is a demand for them (I myself wanted a beastial female for a long time) but I am still curious on the numbers, especially now when they will probably only have like two hairstyles for each face. At least here and on reddit some already posted that they wanted to turn into Hrothgar but that the restrictions will turn them away again. So its really sad that stretching themselves thin on two half races and the other stuff might even decrease the number of players for that race. :/

Anyway I really hope that we will get the missing genders and I also hope that this does not take until 7.0..