Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

We really need that new thread.

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Originally Posted by Raylan

So.. my main class Warrior had no love this final coil patch (fk RNG in this game seriously..) but my alt class is running around with alot of dreadwyrm gear.

I'm not a very good dps player because i derp alot but I've been parsed around 580ish on i think a 4 minute fight with i126 and a 130 weapon (no party or food buff).

I this decent or should i be pulling more?

I'm tempted to run DRG in final coil just for the funz, any tips on the turns as well?

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We've found the war version of Yan folks

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Originally Posted by Raylan

So.. my main class Warrior had no love this final coil patch (fk RNG in this game seriously..) but my alt class is running around with alot of dreadwyrm gear.

I'm not a very good dps player because i derp alot but I've been parsed around 580ish on i think a 4 minute fight with i126 and a 130 weapon (no party or food buff).

I this decent or should i be pulling more?

I'm tempted to run DRG in final coil just for the funz, any tips on the turns as well?

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I don't play DRG in coil as much as I'd like but here's what I got, more advice from better DRGs is welcome:

T10 - depends on your group strat and DPS levels but ideally you're gonna wanna save DFD for the first add phase, and just CT > Phleb basically everything. I do CT > Phleb on both of the adds that get burned first, then immediately DFD over to the next set and repeat, then do 123s as needed. Second set of adds REALLY depends on your group's DPS, if you can afford it do the same thing, otherwise just multi-CT both initial adds and start 123s to burn them instead of switching. Rest of the fight is mainly training dummy, make sure your strats let you have max uptime on the boss including during Heat Lightnings and Wild Charges.

T11 - first phase is dummy legit. Add phase, also mainly dummy, can save a Spineshatter for if you get the lightning but ideally you'll keep a side of the add for lightnings for max melee uptime (IE near the wall by the add is only for the thunderstruck people). Final phase, for those tethers, you can hit basically all your positionals except when dodging, just stick really close to the flank/rear divider.

T12 - Make sure you hit the first Bennu with fully buffed DFD, same with 3rd Bennu. I wouldn't multi-DoT or anything when they spawn, just stay on Phoenix, if the group makes you use GCDs on the Bennus you guys are probably doing it wrong. Use Elusive for dropping Bluefires, otherwise training dummy legit. For Bennu phase, depends on your group's strat and DPS levels and how many Bennu you get, but for my 3 Bennu, no LB group, it's just CT combo > 123s to burn down what needs to get burnt down, getting fancy with multi-DoTs or AoEs here can be dangerous TBH. Final phase, hopefully they don't make you do any fountains, really should just be all ranged or at worst OT + all ranged. If you're ever in danger of getting killed by the phoenix charges, you can Keen Flurry them very effectively. During dodge phase, Keen Flurry if you didn't use it earlier, DRG could probably survive 3 charges in a row if they're all parried.

T13 - Highly highly dependent on group strat and positioning and DPS. Dummy DPS at start. Depending on iLVL you can have B4B up for pretty much every mechanic unlike other classes. IMO DRG is low priority for Cover but that's debatable, but definitely take it over a WAR and BLM unless you're getting fancy with the puddle placement. Ideally you won't have to switch off to attack the wyvern, that can be SCH + BLM + BRD + WAR only, but if you do, Elusive + Spineshatter can make both travel times painless.

Add phase, again, strat dependent. Typically you just restart rotations on whatever you need to, or if you wanna steal BLM DPS, get your Doom Spike on, doesn't really matter in current gear.

Final phase, ideally you'd wanna stay on the boss as much as possible, and your tank would be Covering melee and NOT the OT during the Holmgang, but that's group dependent. You'll probably be the one LBing, basically after any mechanic is free to LB3, there's more than enough time, just don't do it like 5s before Megaflare or Earthshakers ...

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Originally Posted by Zankes

snip.. I wouldn't recommend using lock-on ...

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Zankes & Rysstyl

I was a fan of standard over legacy until I started using lock-on more intentionally. Was doing t8 a lot at the time and noticed (as well as seeing others on here mention) whenever I'd look around at the towers my character would turn away from the boss thus cancelling auto-attacks. This is because your character faces the direction your camera is facing. Lock-on can be finicky too, particularly if you're a lala and/or the boss has a huge hitbox (why I didn't like using it in t8), but it's really superior once you get used to it. I play on ps4 too and just use the R3 click button to pop in and out of target lock as needed. It definitely helps DPS and is more consistent than standard mode IMO, especially if you have to look around to pay attention to any mechanics. Note that while backing up with target-lock is very slow, if you run backwards but at an angle it will be normal speed.

if you look around with left click, your character does not turn.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Zankes & Rysstyl

backing up with target-lock is very slow, if you run backwards but at an angle it will be normal speed.

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I actually rather like using lock on with legacy controls after practicing a bit today. When I run backwards to dodge, I accidentally click L3 half the time anyway, so it isn't that tough of a transition to learn to dodge while dealing with auto lock. Thanks for the advice.

So FInal Coil will be unlocked in two weeks. Cant wait for that gear!

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

So FInal Coil will be unlocked in two weeks. Cant wait for that gear!

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Can't wait for Yan to farm it forever for the spear!

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Originally Posted by Elkya95

Can't wait for Yan to farm it forever for the spear!

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heh heh. everything will drop..but the spear loool

My second kill and spear dropped. I passed beacuse is ugly for me .-.
Maybe the spear can fly and go to the chest of Ricky.
http://i.imgur.com/5UPxluY.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfjU6hJC_II

Here's something I've made for Dragoons (or all DPS jobs really). It's mainly targeted newer players, regarding 9GDC Blood for Bloods. For those of you who're more "experienced", the only thing you'd want to see is this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...zjRXlwb7gUCB8U

The sheet is set-up to see the maximum potencies of using BFB before X Ability, taking into account 9GDCs. You can download it and adjust the Skillspeed values at the top, which will affect the PPS values of course. Yeah, pretty interesting to see.

EDIT: took me a while but I've FINALLY got it working for potencies to adjust for different GDCs in a BFB.

Just hit 50 not too long ago today. Is the information in the first page of this thread still relevant or are there things that have been changed but not implemented? 360 in ilvl 72 atm.

Everything there is relevant still, excluding a few pieces here and there.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...jwbhxkL2IClCQ/ <- Updated 2.X guide.

Is this still the best opener if I cannot do double full thrust with B4B on? To be able to pull it off with my latency I needed 450 skillspeed at least no matter how hard I spammed buttons....


HT -(Internal Release)-> ID -(Leg Sweep)-> Dis -(Power Surge + Blood for Blood)-> CT -(Jump)-> Phleb -(Dragonfire Dive)-> TT -(Spineshatter Dive)-> VT -(Life Surge)-> FT —> HT —> (continue rotation)

I only menaged to get 2 FT with BfB up on the opening like, once in 10 tries with 180ms avarage, makes me sad :(

Do you delay BFB to use it around 2/3d through your GDC or hit it instantly? If the latter, try delay it.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Do you delay BFB to use it around 2/3d through your GDC or hit it instantly? If the latter, try delay it.

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I delay it, but my latency is just terrible and I am not able to use WTFAST , because PS4. Is there any other good alternatives for openers or do you still recommend that if I am not able to do double FT... When EU servers come I will be able to do it.. but I don't think stacking tons of skillspeed would be worth it or would it be?

PS: Saw your video about delaying, so I learnt it from it haha, was funny video.

I delay it, it's something i can pull on my War, but not on my DRG, my jumps must be clipping into my GCD >.>

Just been trying this too, falls off a millisecond to early for me to buff that second FT :(

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Do you delay BFB to use it around 2/3d through your GDC or hit it instantly? If the latter, try delay it.

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Considering the fact that i have a 8 ms ping, do I need a certain skillspeed to do this, i have 0 SS on my drg atm. If not, I'll try it when I get home and tell you the consistency.

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Originally Posted by Spayd

Considering the fact that i have a 8 ms ping, do I need a certain skillspeed to do this, i have 0 SS on my drg atm. If not, I'll try it when I get home and tell you the consistency.

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Can I have your ping D:

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Originally Posted by Spayd

Considering the fact that i have a 8 ms ping, do I need a certain skillspeed to do this, i have 0 SS on my drg atm. If not, I'll try it when I get home and tell you the consistency.

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I believe the minimum you need is 360-370 with such low ping. I think its Auirily who can do it with 367ss.

EDIT: If you're unable to get 9GDCs, download the spreadsheet, and change the GDCs to 8 in cell F3. There's still a few places for you to min/max. :) What I'm going to do later is add a massive list of the entire rotation, with the time and a skill speed modifier, so you can see how different placements of BFB in the opener can impact the rotation in the long run.

One thing that's important is that if you do clip your GDCs at all, it's game over. It takes a lot of practice to get it done.

Another thing to consider is that if you're able to get 9GDCs, the one point in the rotation where its acceptable to delay BFB by a GDC, which are bolded in red. People with lower ping will encounter this, but players like myself who have around 100ms+ will never need to delay it that much.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

I believe the minimum you need is 360-370 with such low ping. I think its Auirily who can do it with 367ss.

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Alright, I'll do some tests to confirm if it works at 0 and 360-370. Also, I've been wondering about stat weight and latency how they affect each others. I've read one of your post saying that the weighting of SS for nin was lower than believed first. I'm wondering how do you calculate this and come up with some exact numbers. I've been wondering this for a while now and have no idea it works.

Also would like to know approximatively what would be the weight if drg stats with 0 latency if it really does affect it!

Latency doesn't have a direct impact on the weighting as much for a Dragoon because of Skill-Queuing, which starts when pressing the button 0.5s before you use the next ability. It only affects Jumps chance to GDC clip, which can be eliminated by waiting 1s and use it after your next GDC so there's 0 clip.

One issue was was that in a full Ninja rotation cycle, which lasts around 88s btw (SS impacts it), my model was calculating 1 Huton, 1 Suiton and 3 Ration, when that's inaccurate. Its would be 1 Huton, 2 Suiton and 2 Ration. Suiton has a larger average GDC clip than a Huton, so that affects it quite considerably. If we were to have absolutely 0 GDC clipping on Mudras, the SS weighting goes up to 0.181.

The next issue was how I was originally calculating DoT clipping. I was speaking to MrYaah about it for a while and we both agreed that how I now do it is more representative of how DoTs work in this game (Also thanks to Sunny!) My model would assume that if you reapplied a DoT by 0.01, it would clip an entire tick, when that isn't really the case. DoTs are on a 3s global Timer, not an internal ability timer. Therefore, each time your skillspeed is increased, there's a higher chance you'll clip one tick of damage. Clipping let's say Phlebotomize 1.5s left into its duration would be a 50/50 chance of clipping a DoT tick, so we needed to model it completely different.

Thus, SS weighting for all jobs (Except monk, lol) decreased. The largest impact was the Bard. It's weighting on SS fell from 0.161 to 0.110 lol

Man, I really want to try it, but I'm playing with 188ms avarage, I and think that It just not worth it to add a lot of SS and pratice, and see myself unable to reach those numbers in actually boss fights. =[

In another topic, anyone got a conclusion about that Accuracy on Relic?

If you cannot get 9GDCs within a Blood for Blood, then the best place to use it is before ID in the opener. This should allow you to hit all of the 180+PPS thresholds. Also, the difference between hitting and not hitting 9 GDCs is around 4PPS on average. Not that much if I may say so.

As for the relic, no clue. I'm currently grinding out as much money as I can and I'm going to go for that 4 acc meld.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

If you cannot get 9GDCs within a Blood for Blood, then the best place to use it is before ID in the opener. This should allow you to hit all of the 180+PPS thresholds. Also, the difference between hitting and not hitting 9 GDCs is around 4PPS on average. Not that much if I may say so.

As for the relic, no clue. I'm currently grinding out as much money as I can and I'm going to go for that 4 acc meld.

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As I though. The Effort would be too high for a not so much gain. I mean, I try to maximize all the variables I can, so in the long run, all that small PPS increase evetualy becomes a big one. But this one, I supose, I can't go for.

For the relic, I still need to meld 11 Savage (aim+Might) IV's. So, I guess the Accuracy would come now, but I'm not into the mood of melding it and then, realize that Crit+DET would be better.

Actually, I could test it, if I had a confirmation on something. Once I meld my scroll, get my Nexus, if I want to re-meld my Relic, do I have to start the scroll from the beggining, or I can replace only one or two materias? If this was possible, I could test it, no problem.

You'd only need to remeld the remaining 4 accuracy. It's cheap, only 4 Accuracy I's lol. - though you'd need to buy another Sphere Scroll with Soldierys, and get 4 Alexandrites again. I'm currently in the process of removing 18 accuracy from my Relic, but I'm going to do it in chunks, as the Soldiery Cost to keep buying new Sphere Scroll is gunna be pretty bi g:P

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Originally Posted by Dervy

You'd only need to remeld the remaining 4 accuracy. It's cheap, only 4 Accuracy I's lol. - though you'd need to buy another Sphere Scroll with Soldierys, and get 4 Alexandrites again. I'm currently in the process of removing 18 accuracy from my Relic, but I'm going to do it in chunks, as the Soldiery Cost to keep buying new Sphere Scroll is gunna be pretty bi g:P

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I see, you'r going to try every value of Accuracy in this gap. But, if it's possible to adjust some materia, I think I'll go for 14 Acc and Finish my Animus at all, as I have already all the Alexandrites, and the only thing holding me is the expansive Crit/Det IV's. I have the Dreadwyrm already, so I'm not IN NEED of the Zeta. This way, I can at least end the Relic/Zodiac Quests. Once I have my Zeta, I'll re-meld that over accuracy into Det/crit again, and maybe leave some Accuracy :P

By the way, is there some value between 1~14 that I could help you with your researches?

I can do it on PS4, but it all depends on getting that timing right on BFB.

As Derv said, takes practice to know when to hit it.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

If you cannot get 9GDCs within a Blood for Blood, then the best place to use it is before ID in the opener. This should allow you to hit all of the 180+PPS thresholds. Also, the difference between hitting and not hitting 9 GDCs is around 4PPS on average. Not that much if I may say so.

As for the relic, no clue. I'm currently grinding out as much money as I can and I'm going to go for that 4 acc meld.

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Yeah, I made testing with 0 SS and 8-9 ms ping, and bfb fall a millisecond before second FT. And since I'm almost BiS, I don't feel like adding SS to my gear, so I'll stick with my current opener:

HT (bfb+LegSweep) > ID (PS + IR) > Dis (X pot) > CT (jump) > Phelbo (DFD) > TT (SSD) > VT (LS) > FT.

This give me the best burst so far, and works ultra well and beat other openers I've tried so far. So I'm going to stick with it! Thanks mate.

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Originally Posted by Spayd

Yeah, I made testing with 0 SS and 8-9 ms ping, and bfb fall a millisecond before second FT. And since I'm almost BiS, I don't feel like adding SS to my gear, so I'll stick with my current opener:

HT (bfb+LS) > ID (PS + IR) > Dis (X pot) > CT (jump) > Phelbo (DFD) > TT (SSD) > VT (LS) > FT.

This give me the best burst so far, and works ultra well and beat other openers I've tried so far. So I'm going to stick with it! Thanks mate.

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Does LS actually come cleanly off cd for the FT with this? o.0

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Originally Posted by TJKuro

Does LS actually come cleanly off cd for the FT with this? o.0

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vRITeekhek

Since i have 0 SS I alternate CT and FT, but yeah, everything comes perfectly on time when a perfect rotation. See for yourself, this is just a part of it since I didn't feel like going for a 4 minutes long recording.

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Originally Posted by TJKuro

Does LS actually come cleanly off cd for the FT with this? o.0

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I assume the first LS is a legsweep. It's smart how Spayd does it; there's an additional leg sweep there in a shorter time frame and one is still huffed by BFB... as long as he isn't clipping GDCs.

And it should come off cleanly, just a tiny bit oGDC management by the second Life Surge fixes it.

Also if anyone wants to try my new opener, it's:

HT - (IR+PS) - ID - (X-Pot) - DI - (delayed BFB) - CT - (jump) - PH - (leg sweep) - TTT combo and weave my other jumps and Life Surge.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

I assume the first LS is a legsweep. It's smart how Spayd does it; there's an additional leg sweep there in a shorter time frame and one is still huffed by BFB... as long as he isn't clipping GDCs.

And it should come off cleanly, just a tiny bit oGDC management by the second Life Surge fixes it.

Also if anyone wants to try my new opener, it's:

HT - (IR+PS) - ID - (X-Pot) - DI - (delayed BFB) - CT - (jump) - PH - (leg sweep) - TTT combo and weave my other jumps and Life Surge.

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Yeah sorry for the LS confusion, first Ls is indeed Legsweep. Edited. I'll try your opener in a few and compare it to mine to tell you if its an improvement.

EDIT: Also, what I like from my opener is that even if for the first FT there's a Life surge, for the next one where FT isn't life surged, Internal Release is still up there to give it a chance to crit. Small details that can make some difference.

What should my dps look like at i113 with nexus weapon? http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/Q1JY Currently i do around 485-500 with party buff. It tends to dip below 500 unless that is normal. Thanks!

Perfectly normal. And I assume that's with a 3 minute parse, ye?

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Perfectly normal. And I assume that's with a 3 minute parse, ye?

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Yes it is. Sorry, forgot to mention that. I guess i will work on my rotation more and see if i can improve. Thank you.

So as a new Dragoon, now level 46, I have been using the rotation in the OP, though not yet with every ability until 50, so subbing. Then just a bit ago I came across this video on Youtube with a different rotation saying it is superior to the one in this thread due to the Dragoon changes that came with 2.45. At 4:24 in the video he goes into the new rotation. I'm lost as to what rotation I should be using exactly for optimum dps, assuming level 50.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy3VGsv-3gM

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Originally Posted by h0tNstilettos

So as a new Dragoon, now level 46, I have been using the rotation in the OP, though not yet with every ability until 50, so subbing. Then just a bit ago I came across this video on Youtube with a different rotation saying it is superior to the one in this thread due to the Dragoon changes that came with 2.45. At 4:24 in the video he goes into the new rotation. I'm lost as to what rotation I should be using exactly for optimum dps, assuming level 50.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy3VGsv-3gM

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Well, the OP hasn't been updated in forever, because the poster has disappeared. The video you link is by Dervy (which is a fairly unique username, so I'm assuming no shenanigans), who's been volunteered to post a new OP when the expansion launches. Knowing nothing else about DRG, I'd say go with the video. :p