[Dev] Overtaxation of PC Hardware

Want to take a guess at what game is doing this? http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9223/sc2h.gif

HINT: It's not XIV.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Want to take a guess at what game is doing this? http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9223/sc2h.gif

HINT: It's not XIV.

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WOW?

+extra crap so I can post ;p

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Uhh no its not JUST an instance lol IE isn't gonna raise your temps like that. So please o exalted one explain why temps go up 15C on THAT screen before even in game. This explanation i have to hear.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

The FPS has Really has very little to do with the argument at hand. I think the problem with this conversation here is were all talking about 2 different things. I know what you are trying to say and unfortunately it has no bearing on this conversational topic.

The optimal requirements for this game are a GTX 460, 2.0 GHZ Processor and 2GB of RAM and 15GB HDD space...

Right now my system is fine, it is running at 60FPS in Ul Dah with No One loaded on my screen, My GPU temperature is 45C, and all my settings are set to default standard for this game. This right now is fine I have no complaints.

The issue with the game is based on this, If I turn off FFXIV, and wait 20 minutes for my system to completely cool down to no load settings my GPU hovers at 25C, Keep in mind this may vary depending on room temp in my house, right now it is 60F outside and in my house so temps are a bit lower.

Now please explain to me how when I load the login screen the temps jump 10-15C there should be NO LOAD on that login screen.

When 1 person loads on my screen my FPS drops from 60-40 FPS and the temperature jumps on average 7-10 Degrees, in an open area not in town. DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SETTING THE GAME IS ON 1-10. It means the game engine is not properly optimized to run and play on our systems. Which means that the game is accessing out hardware more times then it should and causing temperatures to rise higher then they should by overworking our hardware. Currently overworking is probably not a big deal as most of us bought new systems, but 2-3 years down the road constantly working our hardware the way it does will cause overload and hardware will burn out.

Now SE has admitted this in posts on these very forums, as well as over the phone to various people as they have called to complain about things. Constantly running hardware at 100% is a bad thing whether it is designed to be run at said loads or not. Hence forthwith the argument at hand that yes the game is Overtaxing our hardware by causing unnecessary strain on the various components.

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Can't be arsed to read all 48 pages of this, but if your machine is spiking just from opening the log-in menu, maybe it's time to do some house cleaning/maint. on your system.

opening the same log-in screen on my system raised my GPU load by a whole 0% and increased the temp. by... 0 degrees.

There's no argument that FF14 is poorly optimized at best, but I would refrain from throwing every single performance issue that pops up at the feet of the program. There are numerous factors that may have lead to the problem you've encountered, which may or may not be directly or indirectly related to FF14, such is the nature of PC gaming.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Mines 50C after load but on a hot day yes its damn near 70 which is ridiculous I'm sorry but I don't build my PCs to watch them work that hard.

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Really? That's weird, I built my pc to make it work like the dirty beast it is. *Whacks on 16x QCSAA* what's that mr gpu? You feel a bit hot? SUCK IT UP LOOK HOW SMOOF IT ALL IS!!

Gonna echo what others have said, that login screen does nada to my temps, you got something fishy going on elkwood.

I have never gone below 30fps with everything cranked up on 1920x1080 (Single 5870).... the fans have to grind a little harder but its not the end of the world really.... We complain (myself included) but honestly, I don't go more than a year or two on any one piece of hardware anyway..... So shorter lifespans really don't bother me as much
I would think they'd get the engine straight soon though...
Crystal tools is fairly new and has only been used on Xbox 360 DX9 and PS3 OpenGL compatible hardware...
Never on a PC and never DX10 or above... so its going through a few Growing Pains....
Right now it's at that awkward Ben Seaver Stage where its voice is cracking and its not a cute little kid anymore...
I think it can be fixed though... Instead of having to cast Leonardo DiCaprio on the show
You see what I did there?

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Actually no but thank you for proving my point for me, your gonna tell me you idle temp is 56C on your GPU? If so then you need to get your crap checked out.

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never actualy seen a higher than midrange card in person have we? <thats too bad>

i dont even get kicked out of 2D clocks till its past the char selection screen, must be an nvidia thing to overheat in an IE shell window

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Want to take a guess at what game is doing this? http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9223/sc2h.gif

HINT: It's not XIV.

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load high but not pushing the amps that high hmm, its something running without vsync all i can tell, STO?

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Want to take a guess at what game is doing this? http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9223/sc2h.gif

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Did you forget to remove 'sc2' from the file name?

Regardless, lots of games will do that when you have a blower style fan and run it at the minimum speed possible.


I have other bones to pick too:

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

EDIT: I dunno about Crytek. They can bring the graphics, but the first Crysis was really badly optimized.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

The original Crysis was badly optimised. >_> Hence why it still chugs on most hardware today.

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No it was not.

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Originally Posted by SAMINUS

Ya... don't try and run this game with Windows Vista lol, Vista in itself is a memory hog. go with Win 7.

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Hurp durp. http://www.tweakguides.com/VA_1.html

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

So please o exalted one explain why temps go up 15C on THAT screen before even in game. This explanation i have to hear.

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http://daow.net/images/FFXIVLoginTemp.png


Anybody else have BS that they want resolved?

Still waiting on the patch that adds dynamic environmental shadows (or even static ones) so the game engine can justify running so poorly and stressfully.

A mod post a reply about direcX10-11 ! but in japanese ...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...139#post186139

Eh... well let me try translating this.

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Originally Posted by Triairy

Hello everyone,
I spoke with Yoshida regarding the implementation of DX10/11 features.

Keeping the PS3 version in mind, there seem to be no plans to implement it at this moment.

Should there be a big update in graphics in the future, then things like the spread of DX10/11 hardware and software support will have to be considered carefully when choosing the timing of implementation.

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So, if I didn't get the last paragraph wrong, they still don't consider DX10/11 to be widespread enough to warrant an implementation? Also, whatever this has to do with the PS3? PS3 is not running windows, so DX version doesn't matter!

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

So, if I didn't get the last paragraph wrong, they still don't consider DX10/11 to be widespread enough to warrant an implementation? Also, whatever this has to do with the PS3? PS3 is not running windows, so DX version doesn't matter!

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I don't understand that either. Plenty of PC games offer both a DX9 and DX10 option for players, whether the console version supported it or not. There's no reason the PC players should be denied of this even if the PS3 is not capable. It doesn't create any kind of imbalance whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Maxi_Irving

I don't understand that either. Plenty of PC games offer both a DX9 and DX10 option for players, whether the console version supported it or not. There's no reason the PC players should be denied of this even if the PS3 is not capable. It doesn't create any kind of imbalance whatsoever.

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SE is dumb like that around this topic, obviously lot of games do eactly that and it works well.

On the other hand I don't blame Yoshida much, asking the man to give us DX10/11 features while the game is in life support, his job on the line... he probably won't even consider it. Also engine features like DX version is likely out of Yoshida's direct domain.

Best hope we have if the game survives is they might consider adding DX10/11 features in a year or two.

I hope we can get an official translation from a Dev or Mod here because if so that comment may potentially start a shitstorm because it means SE is really not serious about updating the game client to run properly and for the past 2 months we have been lied to.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

I hope we can get an official translation from a Dev or Mod here because if so that comment may potentially start a shitstorm because it means SE is really not serious about updating the game client to run properly and for the past 2 months we have been lied to.

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the game engine (Crystal Tools) was developed around DX9 (XBOX 360) and OpenGL (PS3) compatible hardware
I would imagine the time and cost of adding DX10 support to a newly developed engine would have made the game either
1. Cost way too much
or
2. Take a lot longer to develop

They have to know that they will need to support newer directX API's in the future
Although a DX update would definitely help the game run more efficiently... it isn't the ONLY tweak that can improve how the game runs...
Crystal Tools being proprietary engine... There are quite a few things that can be done to improve it

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

I hope we can get an official translation from a Dev or Mod here because if so that comment may potentially start a shitstorm because it means SE is really not serious about updating the game client to run properly and for the past 2 months we have been lied to.

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The translation is accurate enough. JPN post said there's not plans for Dx10/11 because of the PS3 at this time, but if there are major graphics changes or more widespread usage of dx10/11 they'll work on it.

I don't see how anyone was lied to. There are many more graphics and game code optimizations you can do to this game that don't involve Dx10 or 11. Jumping to Dx10/11 probably isn't worth it at this time and place since they can still do a lot of improvement just within the Dx9 framework.


Still, going back to the JPN post, it's kinda weird how they bring up the PS3 again. Why should that even matter? Also, why design a super beautiful, graphically intense game like FF14 and then get all mushy at the problem of graphics performance? It doesn't make sense. If they were gonna be so damn picky about hardware limitations, why'd they make FF14 so pretty in the first place?

I always thought the plan was this:

People with kick-ass PCs: Play FF14 on PC with all the latest and greatest graphics, like the rest of us PC gaming master race.

People with crappy PCs: Play on PS3.


Perhaps, this plan is not as simple as I think it is (Although it should be. This isn't a problem for other developers).

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Still, going back to the JPN post, it's kinda weird how they bring up the PS3 again. Why should that even matter?

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It's good to see that the same question got posted by multiple people on that JP thread, some are saying it's just an excuse... imo, that's exactly what it is.

And thanks for confirming my translation, I'm still learning Japanese. Good to know I didn't make any major mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

SE is dumb like that around this topic, obviously lot of games do eactly that and it works well.

On the other hand I don't blame Yoshida much, asking the man to give us DX10/11 features while the game is in life support, his job on the line... he probably won't even consider it. Also engine features like DX version is likely out of Yoshida's direct domain.

Best hope we have if the game survives is they might consider adding DX10/11 features in a year or two.

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At this rate, FFXIV might not get DX11 support until DX13 is out. DX12 is not too far off from release. So ya, possibly in a few years.

Got to love how the PS3 version isn't even out yet and S-E is already playing the PS limitations card. Expect more of that in the future.

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Originally Posted by quantumsaint

Got to love how the PS3 version isn't even out yet and S-E is already playing the PS limitations card. Expect more of that in the future.

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Yeah I do not like that we are already hearing this. As much of an out cry this will cause I wish they would just drop PS3 support and go to the Wii U as initial reports from devs are saying it is at least twice as powerful as a PS3/360, hopefully that would allow more head room for FFXIV and then they can port to PS4 when it is released in 2014 or whenever it is released. To be honest at the speed they are "fixing" FFXIV, 2014 could be when it is finally ready to be considered for release on the PS3 anyway ^^

at this point i'm wondering why they ever came with the idea to have this run on a console anyways.
should have just concentrated on a PC only version this time around.
consoles never were, and never will be the first choice when it comes to MMO's.
i can't imagine this game running anyway near normal when the PS3 would need to load up 100 characters including npcs monsters and other things at the same time, and still keep it graphically attractive if it's allready hard to do so on even the best computers.
sometimes i wonder why SE is so obsessed with running on their homemade engines if they could easily burrow another factorys engine.
their art design and settings are outstanding, but technically they really are way back in time.
scrap that PS3 version and get us some DX11 FFXIV, yar!

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Originally Posted by Black_Rose

at this point i'm wondering why they ever came with the idea to have this run on a console anyways.
should have just concentrated on a PC only version this time around.
consoles never were, and never will be the first choice when it comes to MMO's.

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^ This

SE is like a babe in the woods entering the PC-gaming world.

One does not simply walk into Mordor.

We are not like your console audience. We will make or break you. Step it up.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Yeah I do not like that we are already hearing this. As much of an out cry this will cause I wish they would just drop PS3 support and go to the Wii U as initial reports from devs are saying it is at least twice as powerful as a PS3/360, hopefully that would allow more head room for FFXIV and then they can port to PS4 when it is released in 2014 or whenever it is released. To be honest at the speed they are "fixing" FFXIV, 2014 could be when it is finally ready to be considered for release on the PS3 anyway ^^

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Its not the console hardware, per se....
I am not sure the Wii U SDK has any networking info right now... and we know the network can be a deal breaker for a cross platform MMO....
Isn't Xbox Live the reason we wont see this game on the 360?

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Its not the console hardware, per se....
I am not sure the Wii U SDK has any networking info right now... and we know the network can be a deal breaker for a cross platform MMO....
Isn't Xbox Live the reason we wont see this game on the 360?

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Actually from what Nintendo and Devs have been saying Nintendo are going to let the Devs make there own online network for there own games, so for SE that part would be pretty easy as they would just need a bridge to the servers as it were.

Dear SE

Third times the charm. I Brought this one back as well.

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Originally Posted by Black_Rose

should have just concentrated on a PC only version this time around.
consoles never were, and never will be the first choice when it comes to MMO's.

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Doesn't matter if PCs were the first choice of MMOs in the past decade....the PC is a dying gaming platform. FPS's were also once were the domain of PCs....but that doesn't seem to be going so good. Here's some info on the PC vs Console markets.

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Originally Posted by Engadget

Between just 1998 and 2006 console software sales more than doubled, from $2.5 billion to $6.7 billion, while PC game sales dropped from $1.8 billion to $970 million. Even the FPS, once exclusive domain of the PC, is now a console enterprise, with Call of Duty: Black Ops launching on 4.9 million sales on the Xbox 360 and PS3. The PC version, meanwhile, sold less than 400,000 copies (the NPD lumped them in with sales of the Nintendo DS and Wii versions).

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Gamepads with a chatpad are perfectly acceptable for MMOs...the PC is not the future of gaming, and if I were planning a game for the next ten years,... it wouldn't be designed to cater around people hunched over their mouse and keyboard.

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Originally Posted by Naylia

Doesn't matter if PCs were the first choice of MMOs in the past decade....the PC is a dying gaming platform. FPS's were also once were the domain of PCs....but that doesn't seem to be going so good. Here's some info on the PC vs Console markets.



Gamepads with a chatpad are perfectly acceptable for MMOs...the PC is not the future of gaming, and if I were planning a game for the next ten years,... it wouldn't be designed to cater around people hunched over their mouse and keyboard.

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Consoles do not hold the longevity of PCs. PCs are still better adapted for gaming due to hardware upgrades & customization. M/KB is still better for accuracy and physics than a gamepad. If MMOs were so amazingly well-bread into consoles, we'd have WoW on PS3 & Xbox.

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Originally Posted by Belial

Consoles do not hold the longevity of PCs. PCs are still better adapted for gaming due to hardware upgrades & customization. M/KB is still better for accuracy and physics than a gamepad. If MMOs were so amazingly well-bread into consoles, we'd have WoW on PS3 & Xbox.

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Thats partly PC marketing hype... I spend MUCH MORE on keeping my PC ahead of the curve than I do on new consoles... and I have 2 PS3's, a 360, DS XL, PSP and a Wii

Gamepads are more recognizable, more comfortable and more convenient for video games.... thank the NES for that
Games that are released on PC and console do inevitably sell more on consoles...

With PC there are chances for incompatibility and require a little know how to maintain...

I personally prefer PC games, but that is just me.... The trend is towards consoles, as consoles become PC's in and of themselves

Also, WoW is not on console because it didn't have to be .... because it sold 12 mill WITHOUT the work of adapting it to console....
On Xbox they would have had to deal with MS and been coerced into Xbox only servers
With PS they would have had to adapt the game to PSGL from directX

Here's some more recent sales data culled from NPD December 2010 Report:

2009 2010
Video Games Software (Console+Portable – New Physical): $9.92B $9.36B
Total Software Sales – (Console+Portable+PC New Phys)): $10.60B $10.06B

Math =>
2009 PC Software Sales = $0.68B
2009 PC Software Sales = $0.70B

The PC game market is roughly a 7% share of the total video game market....

WoW is old news. If I were a company today...deciding where to invest my resources...well let's just say I understand why the KB/M UI is an obvious secondary concern for SE. (See also complaints regarding Dungeon Seige III's recent launch and shoddy KB/M configuration support). It used to be that the PC was the primary platform, and then it got ported to the console. But I'm starting to get the reverse feeling from many games nowadays.

PC vs Consoles?

Stay on topic or GTFO!

It's the mods fault - he made the comment about lack of support for enhanced PC capabilities since they are keeping the PS3 in mind...

PC Client performs poorly -> because SE hasn't optimized/enhanced engine for PC as much as they should/could-> because the market isn't large enough to care about apparently

Just root cause of the problem...

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Originally Posted by Naylia

PC Client performs poorly -> because SE hasn't optimized/enhanced engine for PC as much as they should/could-> because the market isn't large enough to care about apparently

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PC client performs poorly because the engine it's based on is immature, and the game should never have been released in its current state.

Games like The Witcher (1 and 2) are excellent examples of DX9 games that look and perform great. What they have in common is their engines were created by people with good experience in PC games development.

It's bad enough to have ignorant people claiming that the only way a game engine can perform well is by migrating to DX10/11, without having to endure the years old retarded fanboy argument of PCs vs consoles.

SE wont do anything Bring back Square Soft

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Originally Posted by Amage

SE wont do anything Bring back Square Soft

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Word!

/moarchars

personally I think the things listed in OP are a huge reason this game is dead/dying/ never reached big success, whatever you want to call it.

i can run pretty much every PC game perfectly, and i actually BUILT a pc in anticipation for ffxiv. and despite basically building a pc for this game (of course ive found a lot of fun in OTHER games) i still couldnt run it as well as i wanted.

honestly im always at around 40 fps or worse and puts a strain on my pc. the game is pretty but i just dont understand why its not optimized at all like some other games! its not fun to spend a lot of time on an mmo if its not running nicely., imo. and i cant ever get a clear answer from people exactly WHAT i need to get to run this game perfectly.

so i just assume NOBODY runs this game well, which is sad.

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Originally Posted by Blurred

i cant ever get a clear answer from people exactly WHAT i need to get to run this game perfectly.

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In no way I am defending or justifying SE, just a reality check: What you need is to wait. Yes the engine lacks even the most basic optimizations but at this point the priority is on the need to redesign systems and add content.

We are all on the same boat, the game runs crappy for 99% of its players.

how long should I wait? it's been 9 months since I bought it, and it still runs exactly the same, AND I've upgraded.

you say i need a reality check..lol.

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Originally Posted by Blurred

personally I think the things listed in OP are a huge reason this game is dead/dying/ never reached big success, whatever you want to call it.

i can run pretty much every PC game perfectly, and i actually BUILT a pc in anticipation for ffxiv. and despite basically building a pc for this game (of course ive found a lot of fun in OTHER games) i still couldnt run it as well as i wanted.

honestly im always at around 40 fps or worse and puts a strain on my pc. the game is pretty but i just dont understand why its not optimized at all like some other games! its not fun to spend a lot of time on an mmo if its not running nicely., imo. and i cant ever get a clear answer from people exactly WHAT i need to get to run this game perfectly.

so i just assume NOBODY runs this game well, which is sad.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

In no way I am defending or justifying SE, just a reality check: What you need is to wait. Yes the engine lacks even the most basic optimizations but at this point the priority is on the need to redesign systems and add content.

We are all on the same boat, the game runs crappy for 99% of its players.

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I wouldn't say 99%... It runs fine for me... I get 60fps
It runs hot.. yea... but its not crappy or unplayable
And it frikkin looks great

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I wouldn't say 99%... It runs fine for me... I get 60fps

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You 1percenting lucky sob!

I get 60 as long as I'm not in town or black shroud.

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Originally Posted by Blurred

how long should I wait? it's been 9 months since I bought it, and it still runs exactly the same, AND I've upgraded.

you say i need a reality check..lol.

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You know the answer but you rather QQ... I'll tell you for how long I am waiting:

Until SE fixes the engine.
Until the game dies because they never fixed their crap.
Until I decide waiting isn't worth it.

Whatever happens first.


But if you can't handle reality just keep on whining about it on the boards. It's the free therapy.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

You 1percenting lucky sob!

I get 60 as long as I'm not in town or black shroud.

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You'd be surprised how many HD5870's (or better) or GTX 470's (or better) are out here that can handle the game just fine on 1920x1080 and tons of cards that can do it on lower resolutions...
The game could be more optimized... but most people still run the game fine.. the main gripe being that it could run better...
and you wouldn't need a GTX 460 or better to even play the game