Frustrating relative lack of LGBT NPCs in this game

I hope the mods use this thread to just outright ban a lot of the homophobic posters in here. I really do hope.

Jesus this became a trashcan fire fast lol

Lets be honest, nobody cares.
If you think the game does not represent you well enough then move along, stop trying to cater things to your own fantasies.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

Jesus this became a trashcan fire fast lol

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It was a trash can from the beginning, but some people are willing to die on a hill a titanmen alt set and others necro'd.

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Originally Posted by BokoToloko

It was a trash can from the beginning, but some people are willing to die on a hill a titanmen alt set and others necro'd.

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Miss him everyday tbh, also I don't doubt you on that lol. I'm too lazy to read the entire thread, but I'll say today's discussion in this thread has been a little lit

I'm just gonna leave this.

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Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida

You may be familiar with the [Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Parade] where we had a Final Fantasy XIV float participate. After that event, players in the Korean regions were very uncomfortable with it and people made complaints about now wanting to see that. “This is disgusting!” Things like that. It’s been very tough.

Change is happening. People are becoming more aware and understanding. Values do shift, but I think the pace...is very different depending on individuals. It’s a difficult and delicate situation. It requires us to understand and know how things are around the world.

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I could go on a tangent about the lack of African American options in the game but I wont. While I'd love to see more and have more NPC's be like me, I've long realized that being like me doesn't have an effect on a good story. And having to change the story from region to region would do more harm than good to the global fanbase. For example JP Haurchefant vs EN Haurchefant.

Never said anything like that whole last paragraph. I agree. They aren’t ready. I just think they also aren’t ready for politics or religion. All of that requires an adult mind to comprehend.

Teaching them that sometimes two men or two women get married and that is just fine isn’t overtly sexual at all. No child would take it that way and it is your own perversions and fantasies that make it overtly sexual.

I don't quite understand getting bent out of shape by saying sexual preference, pretty sure everyone knows that it's innate and not a choice, and not something you can change. Also I'm bisexual but I don't see it as part of my identity it's literally just something that determines who I'm attracted to, so I dunno maybe work on having a hobby or something. Also generally I don't think anyone would be opposed to having blurbs in side content, or what have you, but we already do have these, so like.. just wait? We had Sadu flirting with women in MSQ, like chill.. you'll get what you want.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Lets be honest, nobody cares.
If you think the game does not represent you well enough then move along, stop trying to cater things to your own fantasies.

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You say this but the instant a game or other media comes out without a straight white guy as the protagonist everyone is up in arms about it being woke or pushing an agenda or some BS. Let's not sit here and pretend that media that does present a diverse cast or in some cases even a cast of mostly PoC doesn't instantly get all kinds of vitriol.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

I don't quite understand getting bent out of shape by saying sexual preference, pretty sure everyone knows that it's innate and not a choice, and not something you can change. Also I'm bisexual but I don't see it as part of my identity it's literally just something that determines who I'm attracted to, so I dunno maybe work on having a hobby or something. Also generally I don't think anyone would be opposed to having blurbs in side content, or what have you, but we already do have these, so like.. just wait? We had Sadu flirting with women in MSQ, like chill.. you'll get what you want.

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The fact that conversion camps still exist would suggest that no, people don't know this and will use extreme measures to make sure people choose the right "preference".

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

The fact that conversion camps still exist would suggest that no, people don't know this and will use extreme measures to make sure people choose the right "preference".

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Ah, yes let's use an extremist group for our argument, because that makes up the grand majority of people.

Btw I'm glad you are single-handledly stopping conversation therapy by posting and policing language on a game forum, all the while excusing slurs like queer being used.

Are you guys still taking a Militaryvet123 thread seriously?

lol why?

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

The fact that conversion camps still exist would suggest that no, people don't know this and will use extreme measures to make sure people choose the right "preference".

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That's a localised issue and this is a sub-forum that serves the entirety of the English speaking portion of the game's player base. As such, I don't think that this is really an appropriate place for people to be going deep into complex and heavy issues.

By all means, ask for whatever you so wish to be added to the game. Just please accept that not everyone is going to agree for various different reasons.

Attempts to try and force people to rally behind a banner when most people have plenty of their own problems to deal with is liable to do more harm than good. It's not even that many people don't have sympathy or care about a specific cause. It's that they have no need to be dragged into someone else's movement.

I won't say exactly where I live for obvious reasons, though the various local causes that are of interest to me are not things I would expect someone on the other side of the world to get involved with. I only ask the same respect in turn towards myself and others.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

Ah, yes let's use an extremist group for our argument, because that makes up the grand majority of people.

Btw I'm glad you are single-handledly stopping conversation therapy by posting and policing language on a game forum, all the while excusing slurs like queer being used.

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Oh yeah and pretending that they don't exist and taking this lofty condescending attitude also on a message board is doing wonders to help as well.

I don't feel like anyone in the game is actually labeled either way. I mean, is there any love interest shown? Seems to me that at least in the main story nobody has mentioned a love interest at all. So really the representation of straight vs LGBTQ+ is kind of the same.

What would the LGBT characters do or say so we know that they are LGBT?

Let's all be real though, ffxiv is a shonen anime. No one even holds hands in anything, and relationship are far from transparent. Just a whole lot of fan service, and zero pay off like Lucy and Natsu from fairy tail save for possibly the spin off series. It is honestly just how it will always be the closest you are going to get is the bro mance between Aymeric and Estinien. People are born from stork delivery, and there are not even multiple race children that I know of unless they all just look like one other race like Asari from mass effect. So lala plus roe equals lala. elezen plus a human equals elezen even though garlean would make a ton of sense. What I am getting at is this was started as a troll thread and we do not even get to romance anyone ourselves within ffxiv, so at the moment it feels like no representation of literally anything but sterile plutonic pats on the booty.

https://c.tenor.com/B8XIrY7hG4EAAAAd/ff14-ffxiv.gif

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

Really? I seem to recall early 90's anime which had gay couples in it, but when they got localized in the west they were just "good friends".
From my perspective the west has been far too late to accept homosexual relations, and nowadays are rebounding way way wayyyyy too far in the opposite direction to try and compensate.

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I think you are thinking of Sailor Moon. They made them cousins >.< it just made all of the scenes interesting to say the least knowing the japanese and wondering what the censorship department was getting at. Though I do recall other 90s anime having similar things I would have to dig up the knowledge.

Edit: Oooooooh Berserk also! but unsure of year time frame of when it started. Also Revolutionary Girl Utena, I almost forgot about that one as well it is an oldie but I remember liking it when I was younger.

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Originally Posted by Faafetai

Let's all be real though, ffxiv is a shonen anime. No one even holds hands in anything, and relationship are far from transparent. Just a whole lot of fan service, and zero pay off like Lucy and Natsu from fairy tail save for possibly the spin off series. It is honestly just how it will always be the closest you are going to get is the bro mance between Aymeric and Estinien. People are born from stork delivery, and there are not even multiple race children that I know of unless they all just look like one other race like Asari from mass effect. So lala plus roe equals lala. elezen plus a human equals elezen even though garlean would make a ton of sense. What I am getting at is this was started as a troll thread and we do not even get to romance anyone ourselves within ffxiv, so at the moment it feels like no representation of literally anything but sterile plutonic pats on the booty.

https://c.tenor.com/B8XIrY7hG4EAAAAd/ff14-ffxiv.gif



I think you are thinking of Sailor Moon. They made them cousins >.< it just made all of the scenes interesting to say the least knowing the japanese and wondering what the censorship department was getting at. Though I do recall other 90s anime having similar things I would have to dig up the knowledge.

Edit: Oooooooh Berserk also! but unsure of year time frame of when it started.

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There are some animes with overtly LGBT characters. Fruits Basket. Steel Angel Kurumi. Ghost in the Shell. Ranma 1/2 (I mean Ranma is more or less non-binary at least and seems to enjoy being both). Gundam 00.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Fantasy, a genre well known for never depicting romance or love between characters. Especially Final Fantasy, no games in that franchise that have a romantic plot as a central element, nope.

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Honestly I never get the whole ‘Politics should not be included in fantasy’ argument. I find that it, and Sci-Fi, are one of the best creative palettes to explore almost every issue important to mankind. Like Star Trek in sci-fi regards, and the politics of FF7, often regarded as the best fantasy video games of all time, just keeps getting more and more poignet as the years go on. Then again, I also think its nearly impossible to create a work of fiction that is apolitical. We are all guided by our believes, values, morals etc. and writers are no exception.

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Originally Posted by Roflcopter

There are some animes with overtly LGBT characters. Fruits Basket. Steel Angel Kurumi. Ghost in the Shell. Ranma 1/2 (I mean Ranma is more or less non-binary at least and seems to enjoy being both). Gundam 00.

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Aye! I knew I was forgetting many I can't believe I didn't mention ghost in the shell and fruits basket. I still need to watch Ranma 1/2(the small amount I seen it was adorable),Steel Angel Kurumi, and gundam 00. It is usually more common in seinen anime or manga, usually it is low key especially in the more young adult or slice of life unless that is the focus. For final fantasy I get many pansexual vibes because no matter what your wol may be characters seem to crush hard even if it isn't in your face announced. I like the subtle inclusion of things like when watching The Expanse. The characters where just characters that happened to have a preference one way or the other.

*20 more pages of replies*
Screw it, let's show WoW what we are made of! We need our own 9.15 patch in XIV! Let's do this!

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Originally Posted by Padudu

Jesus this became a trashcan fire fast lol

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Friendly reminder that IDPOL was pushed hard by media to get us to forget about Occupy, and the true issue of class inequality

One can hope this thread has gone off-topic enough for the mods to finally lock it

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

Friendly reminder that IDPOL was pushed hard by media to get us to forget about Occupy, and the true issue of class inequality

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100% Identity politics is just a way to keep people's minds off of the growing income gap. Just another way to keep at each other's throats while others reap the benefits.

The he is this thread lol. You nerds need to stop fighting and just go play the game.

I was going to rant at you since I'm tired of this shit being shoved down my throat in western media (I am Bi before you pull out your isms and phobias) but I just realized there really isn't a single LGBT couple or anything... No I remember 1 for a vague side-quest (oh you remember it too it was Upper La Noscea.) but literally just that. I wouldn't mind one or two here or there so long as it's not shoved down our throats like western games. Also true that Alphinaud isn't transexual, just looks feminine. Which is incomprehensible to those in the LGBT community these days like tomboys... I wouldn't actually mind a few in the game. They also couldn't make a family friendly counter argument when Yotsuyu was a literal ex-prostitute and this games story gets really really dark.

I am also glad they started removing the gender lock on many outfits since I like running around in maid outfit trapping it up. So I'll side with ya this time, let's get a couple LGBT couples or something in here. Just don't make it in your face.

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

I was going to rant at you since I'm tired of this shit being shoved down my throat in western media (I am Bi before you pull out your isms and phobias) but I just realized there really isn't a single LGBT couple or anything... No I remember 1 for a vague side-quest (oh you remember it too it was Upper La Noscea.) but literally just that. I wouldn't mind one or two here or there so long as it's not shoved down our throats like western games. Also true that Alphinaud isn't transexual, just looks feminine. Which is incomprehensible to those in the LGBT community these days like tomboys... I wouldn't actually mind a few in the game. They also couldn't make a family friendly counter argument when Yotsuyu was a literal ex-prostitute and this games story gets really really dark.

I am also glad they started removing the gender lock on many outfits since I like running around in maid outfit trapping it up. So I'll side with ya this time, let's get a couple LGBT couples or something in here. Just don't make it in your face.

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What exactly does "not in your face" mean to you? Can you provide an example? I sensing people don't agree on specifics here.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

What exactly does "not in your face" mean to you? Can you provide an example? I sensing people don't agree on specifics here.

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The minute you give activists a hand, they will take the arm, and then they will press their advantage to the point you wished you never did anything for them. I may be cynical here, but I don't trust collectivistic type people, considering how they place the value of their identity above everything else. I would instead like this game not to be burned on their pyre.

Well that didn't take long for someone to call the other person a nazi lol.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

Well that didn't take long for someone to call the other person a nazi lol.

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That's what alot of people like to use as last resort. Degenerate is not the same as what was described by the Nazis as "Untermensch" (meaning a non-aryan, slavic person I believe).

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Originally Posted by Shin96

That's what alot of people like to use as last resort.

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Yeah...this sort of thing happens a lot when a conversation or debate has run its course, which it clearly has.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

That's what alot of people like to use as last resort. Degenerate is not the same as what was described by the Nazis as "Untermensch" (meaning a non-aryan, slavic person I believe).

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Is this point, I also say I'm a ginger and a celt, two groups not included in the Nazi's Ubermensch principle, and Hitler even stopped us from marrying and producing children because our children would be too unruly but then again, I'm Scottish, I'm used to that.

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Originally Posted by Vryn

The minute you give activists a hand, they will take the arm, and then they will press their advantage to the point you wished you never did anything for them. I may be cynical here, but I don't trust collectivistic type people, considering how they place the value of their identity above everything else. I would instead like this game not to be burned on their pyre.

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That doesn't answer my question at all. Unless your answer is "do nothing at all" which isn't really helpful to the conversation.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

That's what alot of people like to use as last resort.

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To be honest I was waiting for it with how the discussion was popping off earlier lol. I sure do love hearing about the "tolerance" people tend to speak of until you disagree with them. The fact that this thread hasn't been nuked yet is amazing tbh

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Originally Posted by Padudu

To be honest I was waiting for it with how the discussion was popping off earlier lol. I sure do love hearing about the "tolerance" people tend to speak of until you disagree with them. The fact that this thread hasn't been nuked yet is amazing tbh

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I think the moderators like to watch the forums burn sometimes. They've fed more than a few people over the years to the wolves of GD.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

That doesn't answer my question at all. Unless your answer is "do nothing at all" which isn't really helpful to the conversation.

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You do it on your terms, if they demand something you say no. You make this group of people feel like they are nothing just as society makes other unwanted groups feel rejected you should do the same to them because they are the same. A collectivist no matter the form it takes is cancer they turn everything into tribal warfare when it should be a conversation between individuals.

You do not let someone else control the narrative.

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Originally Posted by Vryn

Is this point, I also say I'm a ginger and a celt, two groups not included in the Nazi's Ubermensch principle, and Hitler even stopped us from marrying and producing children because our children would be too unruly but then again, I'm Scottish, I'm used to that.

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In which case Hitler never gave any gay and other minorities any labels but instead euthanized; gassed them. He was a brutal tyrant with no remorse. It upsets me when I see people throw this word out without knowing the definition. It means National Socialist of course, but has far darker descriptions and implications and should only be used when accurate.

Best to let this thread die. Whoever necro'd this topic got his kicks out and all it did was draw away attention from what was being discussed (housing, gameplay, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Padudu

To be honest I was waiting for it with how the discussion was popping off earlier lol. I sure do love hearing about the "tolerance" people tend to speak of until you disagree with them. The fact that this thread hasn't been nuked yet is amazing tbh

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It's odd, too, since the threads trying to cause drama over the 'Z' title were - quite rightly - removed altogether when they devolved into outright hostility.

I can't wait for the day where more businesses wake up to the fact that LGBT 'movements' are different to LGBT individuals. A significant chunk of gay people, myself included, want nothing to do with the weird attempts to force other people to get involved with identity politics. Especially when they're being pushed through a very biased and narrow lens. A decent amount of people posting here are European, not American. So much like I wouldn't expect people to get involved with local or national movements in my country, I expect the same from other people.

Especially when most people have their own issues to deal with and exist outside of the Twitter sphere. A place in itself which arguably has very little basis in reality.

...and in case it isn't obvious, calling European posters 'Nazis' is reprehensible for many reasons, not in the least because many of us have relatives who fought and died during WW1 and WW2.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I think the moderators like to watch the forums burn sometimes. They've fed more than a few people over the years to the wolves of GD.

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Yes I suspect they do. Very disgusting if you ask me. Square absolutely should investigate wether or not they do their job. This is not helping any of us.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

Yes I suspect they do. Very disgusting if you ask me. Square absolutely should investigate wether or not they do their job. This is not helping any of us.

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Some deserve it, some don't. Either way yeah, they aren't always as proactive as they probably should be.