Primal drop system, still no changes?!

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Again, we apologize for the change and ask for your understanding.

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"I'm sorry I punched you in the face and will again, and thank you for not punching back."

Well I do understand the frustration of this issue, but I also think that the feedback is good to allow people to let out some steam, but I dont think SE should take futher actions on this issue, I would rather see efforts placed into more game content and work towards the games story.

game play is always going to be debatable matter, as it largely depends on the audience preseption and gaming background, I mean offense to anyone; but I think the primal fights have become overated at this point, and it only represents a small portion of the gaming experience this game is aiming for.

Cheers.

Don't understand posts like this. You realize that the current version of XIV is not their priority? I mean they're overhauling the entire game for 2.0. I can understand peoples frustration somewhat, but at the same time see no point in getting irritated with it when everything will change so soon. The year is already about half over. Not only that but most of the stuff about 2.0 is under wraps still, so it's not like they're going to just let this go. Just wait it out and quit QQing over small stuff that only a small portion of the dev team is working on.

Also, if you're doing PUGs, make the group consistent and try having the same players. Then you can just pass totems to each other and get everyone the weapons they need faster. That way everyone in the group gets what they need a lot faster and can move on.

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Originally Posted by JasonMarkle

Just wait it out and quit QQing over small stuff ....

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If you think Ifrit/Moogle battles are the small part of 'endgame' content, what is large??? 8-10 months is not soon. The year is not even close to half over. That happens in July. By my calculations, that's $80-$100 of my money which is not a 'gift' so that they can be working on some 2.0 which I may or may not play.

After reading this thread and looking at some of the wins to weapons ratio I asked my friend the other day how was she doing on Ifrit. She said 151 wins, 2 totems, 0 weapons. I asked her how is she keeping track just giving a rough guess or what? She said she screenshots EVERY opened chest and makes a portfolio of it. To keep track that way must really lower your spirits looking at all those screenshots and only dark matter and vampire plants to show for it. I promised her she will have my totems until she has a weapon of her own. If SE really does justify this as balance it would be like saying "Sorry Timmy but no matter how hard you try you'll never get what your striving for because we think there is enough of it out there already." If this is their idea of balance they might as well hand out cards saying what items your allowed to quest for. Remember you could be that Timmy

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Originally Posted by Quesse

If you think Ifrit/Moogle battles are the small part of 'endgame' content, what is large??? 8-10 months is not soon. The year is not even close to half over. That happens in July. By my calculations, that's $80-$100 of my money which is not a 'gift' so that they can be working on some 2.0 which I may or may not play.

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Primal battles aren't endgame content. Endgame isn't even in yet. That will be 2.3 with the Garlean stuff. Also, read the part about consistent PUGs. That will seriously solve a lot of the problem. That's how my LS did it, and everyone had their weapons much faster than waiting around for each individual person to get x amount of totems for Ifrit or Mog weapons. If you have consistent pick up groups with the same people the same can be applied and everyone can get what they need.

Yeah current game isn't what SE are working on it's purely 2.0.... that's why we're getting additional storylines added that won't be repeatable when 2.0 is out. Some peoples' logic just amazes me.

Also it's not QQing over something small, it's a terrible mechanic that hundreds of people disagree with and it will put people off playing. It's also an issue they could easily solve but they prefer to artificially draw out the content using bad drop mechanics.

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Originally Posted by ArkNova

After reading this thread and looking at some of the wins to weapons ratio I asked my friend the other day how was she doing on Ifrit. She said 151 wins, 2 totems, 0 weapons. I asked her how is she keeping track just giving a rough guess or what? She said she screenshots EVERY opened chest and makes a portfolio of it. To keep track that way must really lower your spirits looking at all those screenshots and only dark matter and vampire plants to show for it. I promised her she will have my totems until she has a weapon of her own. If SE really does justify this as balance it would be like saying "Sorry Timmy but no matter how hard you try you'll never get what your striving for because we think there is enough of it out there already." If this is their idea of balance they might as well hand out cards saying what items your allowed to quest for. Remember you could be that Timmy

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Sadly many people don't care about Timmy unless they become Timmy.

I don't really plan to do much of this content until SE fix the loot situation, of course that means I lose out but I'm not boring myself stupid to get these items, they aren't much more than novelty weapons anyway, everyone has one.

I'm WHM and BLM as my main classes which makes me even less motivated to waste time to do them, maybe if Garuda's weapon has decent healing stats I will make an effort to get one of those.

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Originally Posted by Vire

This is still stupid. What you just said makes no sense. Why would players complain that they are unlucky if it drops a totem every time then there is no luck! You kill him and you make progress towards something. Make totems drop 50% and change it to 5 or give us 100% totem drops and leave it at 10. 70 runs for one fight is more then enough and your burning people out of your game. I have run Ifrit now 70 times and have gotten one weapon I needed and 6 totems. This is more then ridiculous and I can tell you if I have to run garuda over 100 times to get one item I think im going to move on from this game.

Edit: The reason is they want to slow people down on purpose so they don't run out of things to do. How about instead of punishing your players you go the other way and reward them. Make it so that people who have all the weapons have a reason to still run the content like for example being able to turn in primal weapons for seals. That way all the content dose not become outdated because you get exp for completing the quest and you can farm seals while helping newer players get their weapons.

I mean come on at least be honest with us here instead of just lying to our faces we are not stupid. This is not how you treat your customers who are showing a great deal of faith paying for the game that is suppose to be out in 2.0. Just tell us honestly why you didn't change the drop rates.

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I said this on page 12 by the way 37 pages later they still have us just chasing our tails. People are upset about this because garuda is going to be like this. Just explain the decision to us instead of just copy and pasting thanks for your understanding post.

ps. Your not extending content people will stop running them even if they don't get there drops when they get so frustrated they stop doing them or worst quit the game.

Many people who where upset with the second announcement are not upset because you guys decided to change it. People are upset because it went from getting a little better from this travesty of a loot system to right back to status quo. Which is why many of us are asking for an explanation of their philosophy because the devs saying one thing and doing another. The first post about this is a completely contradictory statement which made no sense and the second change makes even less sense. All in all your loot system is dumb we have explained why.

You know, I wouldn't QQ over Ifrit fight if I at least got a (appropriate) consolation prize. Like maybe 250 company seals (350 is full company party) instead of dark matter. But Yes, I really would hope that SE would just answer us over why the primal loot drops straight to inventory instead of the horrible personal loot pools.

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Originally Posted by AlaulaTheGreat

You know, I wouldn't QQ over Ifrit fight if I at least got a (appropriate) consolation prize. Like maybe 250 company seals (350 is full company party) instead of dark matter. But Yes, I really would hope that SE would just answer us over why the primal loot drops straight to inventory instead of the horrible personal loot pools.

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Because servers...or something. They literally cannot change parsimony so that the mp reduction is taken off before casting it rather than after apparently so nothing surprises me by this point. They could show us a room full of linked SNESs and tell us it's the servers and I'd believe them.

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Originally Posted by AlaulaTheGreat

I really would hope that SE would just answer us over why the primal loot drops straight to inventory instead of the horrible personal loot pools.

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Because they are afraid player's will be pressured to give something they got dropped to another player in the party.
I don't remember WHERE it was said, but that's basically SE's explanation.
I've never seen people coming out of Darkhold sobbing because they got cybermobbed into giving up a weapon which dropped into their lootpool, but Primae seem to bring out the dark sides of people, at least in the dev team's mind:rolleyes:

I really hope they reconsider this and allow players to give drops to other players in the group.
I lost track on how many times I did Ifrit already just so a friend of mine could finally get a bow.
During all this time, quite a few bows got dropped, many of them to people who already HAD IT.
They couldn't pass it to her, the run ended with BOTH getting nothing.
This is so incredibly stupid, I don't even know what to say about it.

Also, nuts and totems.
They should be a reward for people who do this fight often but still have no luck, because pecentages are a bitch.
How come the droprate for these is JUST AS BAD as the one for weapons?
I'd be fine with having to turn in 30 or 40 of these for one weapon, if I got one for each fight I won.
But just by being unlucky, I get 2 nuts in 30+ fights; that's just not fair.

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

They could show us a room full of linked SNESs and tell us it's the servers and I'd believe them.

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hello new signature

Game is working as intended, i got 7/7 is about 200 runs, *sings cry me a river*

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Originally Posted by Majidah

hello new signature

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Shame that BS add-on for SFC was more stable.

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Originally Posted by Enma

P.S.
People prefer to complain about Anima...

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LOOOOL!!!
Indeed dude.

I remember:

<Yuri San> I just want the Ifrit axe and sword.
2.3459 stacks of tappers later
<Yuri San> OMFG ANOTHER CANE!!!!!!! I JUST WANT THE AXE AND THE SWORD!!!

<Yuri San> I just want the Moogle axe and sword.

Hmm...

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Originally Posted by ArkNova

After reading this thread and looking at some of the wins to weapons ratio I asked my friend the other day how was she doing on Ifrit. She said 151 wins, 2 totems, 0 weapons.

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Originally Posted by VitoScaletta

Game is working as intended, i got 7/7 is about 200 runs, *sings cry me a river*

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These two example typify SE crap game design -- also a great typical player response: "I fell into the middle of the bell curve, so sucks to be you".

Just because I went 1/1 on the Emperor in FFXI but then went 1/31 on Roc (31 wins is like months of camping while the window rotates in and out of JPN time) doesn't mean that everyone should be happy about it or even that it should be the SE MMORPG standard of gameplay. SE needs to grow up.

By "growing up" you mean hand everyone everything the first time they did it? As I recall going 1/1 for every single avatar reward in FFXI excluding waking the beast version.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

By "growing up" you mean hand everyone everything the first time they did it? As I recall going 1/1 for every single avatar reward in FFXI excluding waking the beast version.

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No one is asking for a 1 to 1 ratio. They are asking for either 1. Passable loot so they can pass weapons they don't need/want OR for 1 totem for each clear so they can see progress.


Also just to be clear, if it was 1 totem per fight for each person for a win. And if it took 10 totems to get one weapon. It'd still take one player 70 wins to get 7/7 on ONE primal...that is just a little over 29 hours of CONSTANT playtime if you did every win in 10mins or under (you still have to account for the 15 minute waiting period). So if the average static group did this fight every day for 2 hours, it'd still take them 2-3 weeks to clear depending on how fast they could kill the Primal/how many wipes they had.

And I'd rather do away with the totems/nuts etc. I prefer passable loot, which takes LONGER to get 7/7 even in a static. I figured that out in an earlier post. Basically the passible loot system would take about a month to get 7/7 for each member of a static if they ran the Primal for 2.5 hours every day.

In either case, there's a feeling of 'progress' happening.

Players aren't asking for easy, they are asking for measurable progress.

Also, I was in a ls that took 4 years of Dynamis to get ONE, yes ONE BLM Hat....and it wasn't due to lack of trying/running dynamis. Just stupid luck.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

No one is asking for a 1 to 1 ratio. They are asking for either 1. Passable loot so they can pass weapons they don't need/want OR for 1 totem for each clear so they can see progress.


Also just to be clear, if it was 1 totem per fight for each person for a win. And if it took 10 totems to get one weapon. It'd still take one player 70 wins to get 7/7 on ONE primal...that is just a little over 29 hours of CONSTANT playtime if you did every win in 10mins or under (you still have to account for the 15 minute waiting period). So if the average static group did this fight every day for 2 hours, it'd still take them 2-3 weeks to clear depending on how fast they could kill the Primal/how many wipes they had.

And I'd rather do away with the totems/nuts etc. I prefer passable loot, which takes LONGER to get 7/7 even in a static. I figured that out in an earlier post. Basically the passible loot system would take about a month to get 7/7 for each member of a static if they ran the Primal for 2.5 hours every day.

In either case, there's a feeling of 'progress' happening.

Players aren't asking for easy, they are asking for measurable progress.

Also, I was in a ls that took 4 years of Dynamis to get ONE, yes ONE BLM Hat....and it wasn't due to lack of trying/running dynamis. Just stupid luck.

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They said they couldn't do passable weapons which is why most want 1 totem per win.

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Originally Posted by Firon

They said they couldn't do passable weapons which is why most want 1 totem per win.

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Actually they could, they said they against it for some reason or another.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Actually they could, they said they against it for some reason or another.

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They said they couldn't cause everyone gets their own chest and its not shared which why it goes directly to your items list.

I could have sworn it was something about unfair trades going on, or if I'm thinking about something else.

fair idea for primal drops. allow all players to get either a kup nut or totem 100% drop for a win, and make it so its untradeable & cant be transfered between peoples loot. then have it were u need say 15 kupo nuts or totems for each weapon for the npc.(personally 20 is too many and 10 is to little, 15 allows SE to keep ppl playing but allowing ppl to obtain thier goal over a fair amount of time without them gettin dragged along like we are now with these crappy drop rates.) if you have all weapons 7/7 from the primals and still have kupo nuts or totem u should be able to trade them to a npc for seals, say for example 1 nut/totem=250 seals, also if u get a weapon drop and want a different weapon you should be able to trade for one you want to the npc. then keep the current drop rate for the weapons but allow ppl to pass them to someone else who needs instead of having ppl get a weapon they already got go to waste or allow ppl to trade mutliple weapons in for seals.

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Originally Posted by stanleyyoung

stuff

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This is something people have been pitching around on BG for awhile and I agree with it. To me the problem isn't how long it takes for the stuff, but rather how it's pure luck based and you have no control over it. I'd kill to see Primals/Raides/whatever run on a token system that rewards you based on your performance in a fight, not you luck.

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Originally Posted by stanleyyoung

fair idea for primal drops. allow all players to get either a kup nut or totem 100% drop for a win, and make it so its untradeable & cant be transfered between peoples loot. then have it were u need say 15 kupo nuts or totems for each weapon for the npc.(personally 20 is too many and 10 is to little, 15 allows SE to keep ppl playing but allowing ppl to obtain thier goal over a fair amount of time without them gettin dragged along like we are now with these crappy drop rates.) if you have all weapons 7/7 from the primals and still have kupo nuts or totem u should be able to trade them to a npc for seals, say for example 1 nut/totem=250 seals, also if u get a weapon drop and want a different weapon you should be able to trade for one you want to the npc.

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Well yea we have been saying this for months now.

I won't be surprised if in 1.22 Garuda's weapon will cost 20 tokens, and is probably why they are lowering Moogle to 10.

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then keep the current drop rate for the weapons but allow ppl to pass them to someone else who needs instead of having ppl get a weapon they already got go to waste or allow ppl to trade mutliple weapons in for seals.

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I don't agree with being able to pass the items as well as the 100% tokens, if they make the tokens drop 100% they need to remove the weapons completely from the loot list and only have them obtainable from the NPC.

Can't have it both ways.

this is bs, after 100 runs i still only have 3 weapons and 6 totems. this shit is pissing me off seeing ppl getting same weapons and those who need are sol. se can suck it.

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Originally Posted by SuicideJoker

this is bs, after 100 runs i still only have 3 weapons and 6 totems. this shit is pissing me off seeing ppl getting same weapons and those who need are sol. se can suck it.

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Are you kidding me ? those aren't bad odds.

it's bad if u see ppl ur doing it with gets multiple drops and u get a plant and dm.

There are people over 300 wins with 2 weapons... your numbers are in the good range.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

There are people over 300 wins with 2 weapons... your numbers are in the good range.

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well i guess would make mine better, but dammit its frustrating....

what corrderio said the current drop system is more luck base, then progression based. with my idea or if SE makes something similar to it you have both progression and luck based. currently it doesnt matter if you done the fight 1,2,3 or even 50 times the drop rate is the same. with my idea a player could get lucky and receive a weapon they want on their first win but they wont have the same progression like some1 who has done the fight 20times, which that person could probably have more weapons from luck drops but also have weapons through nut/totem build ups from their progression. its nice to see your effort being accounted for! my idea is a win win for players and SE alike, ppl get to physically see their progress for the multiple wins against the primals by building up nuts/totems for weapon of thier choosing while having a chance of also getting a luck drop too. this helps SE by allowing players to achieve their goals over time through their progression of the fights and yet still having a fair time sink for getting the gear they want. the last thing SE needs is players gettin all the gear they want then waiting for next patch, thats why i says 15 is about right(20 is pushing it were its too many and the same goes for 10, pushing its were its kinda to low) i would also like to see more drops like HQ materials for crafting and even matteria. an example of a fight at minimum would be 1 weapon drop atleast and 2 HQ mats, materias drops also.

Well with ifrit im up 130+ pieces of dark matter i've lost count how many it is over that now but at least i got 2 totems........ so by the time i have 10 totems i'll have over 800 pieces of dark matter & no weapon drops.

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Originally Posted by prymortal

Well with ifrit im up 130+ pieces of dark matter i've lost count how many it is over that now but at least i got 2 totems........ so by the time i have 10 totems i'll have over 800 pieces of dark matter & no weapon drops.

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Don't worry your weapon drop will come...for a job you don't use~

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

Don't worry your weapon drop will come...for a job you don't use~

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LOL IT DID second win against ifrit got it for mrd when it was lvl 0. only dark metter since & the rare totems

Solution: Make an achievement for 300 ifrit wins with a consolation being your choice of weapon! hahah I kd,i i kid.

Ha, or make it so that the second ifirit weapon that forces it's way into your inventory upgrades what ever weapon into +1.

Did 9 runs last night 3 totems among party, 3 weapons and all 3 were dupes and went to dump ><

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Did 9 runs last night 3 totems among party, 3 weapons and all 3 were dupes and went to dump ><

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SE: Instilling hope for players in 2.0.


Lol....what a joke.

Just so everyone knows the score on that Reinheart probably spent around four and a half hours beating Ifrit and of the 8 people who went 3 of them got a totem. That is roughly 4% drop rate but even at a generous 5%. It could take Hundreds of hours just beating the boss to get 10 totems for all 8. Thats just for one of the seven weapons.