How to Dragoon Per Second: A DPS Paradigm

wait is botd 8pps including the + from jump and spineshatter?

whats the +-pps only counting the 4th combos

what if you have no jumps up, would it maybe be more dps to let botd drop instead of skipping phleb?

That's just the raw PPS from the rotation alone, no oCDs.

Also, getting higher and higher. i173, i180 weapon. Drac-Pot usage this time however, no ninja, unmerged.

http://i.imgur.com/EklnLid.png

I've got a vid on a few sneaky tips/tricks you can do to cheese your DPS up in the works if anyone is interested. I'll also do a write up for those who cba.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

wait is botd 8pps including the + from jump and spineshatter?

whats the +-pps only counting the 4th combos

what if you have no jumps up, would it maybe be more dps to let botd drop instead of skipping phleb?

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We can make estimates for general cases easily enough (which will be listed below, but verification left as an exercise to the reader). The real devil is in the details, which I realize is what you're probably asking for but meh.

Let's say the SS buff to DoTs isn't in effect since we don't know in detail how that works. Let's say we leave the crit buff to crits at 1.5x for the same reason, and have an arbitrarily chosen 14% crit chance. Let's say you have ~2.4s GCD enabling a full Heavy Thrust uptime.

Then the 24-step GCD rotation is 148.0 pps and a 10-step GCD rotation is 155.3 pps. (with GCD buffs and debuffs factored in, with average crit, without any CD aside from BotD).

What if you can only hit from the front?

Then the 24-step GCD rotation is 140.7 pps and a 10-step GCD rotation is 127.1 pps.

Jump / Power Surge + Jump is 500 potency per minute (note that oGCDs account for less in practice because GCDs outpace them, and latency/lag and other delays in execution creep up on them). 500 * 1.1 * 1.15 * 1.07 / 60 -> 11.28 pps without BotD, 14.66 pps with. A 3.38 pps improvement.

Spineshatter Dive is 170 potency per minute -> 170 * 1.1 * 1.15 * 1.07 / 60 -> 3.84 pps without BotD, 4.99 pps with. A 1.15 pps improvement.

Geirskogul, I am gathering from the previous pages, should be 600 potency per minute under ideal conditions. 600 * 1.1 * 1.15 * 1.07 / 60 -> 13.54 pps.

So, BotD is about 18 pps improvement to other cooldowns when you add up the improvements. 127.1 + X + 18 pps -> 145 + X pps , which beats out 140.7 + X pps. Even with the drastic potency drop from wrong positionals, it's worth it to maintain BotD if the fight will last the whole cycle. In practice, though, I've had trouble simply keeping BotD up between mobs in HW open world stuff since they're spaced out a bit. I just hit 60 last night and haven't picked Geirskogul up yet, but I imagine it's more practical and plenty damaging to just blow your BotD against not-bosses.

whats my dummy parse supposed to be at i171?

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Originally Posted by Dervy

I've got a vid on a few sneaky tips/tricks you can do to cheese your DPS up in the works if anyone is interested. I'll also do a write up for those who cba.

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Where's that? I feel very confused on Bis Ex in where and when to pop/save CDs. Not only in a matter of Sustained DPS, but in order to pass some phases properly.

What phases in particular do people need help on? I'll try to include it.

I was eager to see what the effect of SS on DoTs was. At 768 STR, 378 DET, 523 SS (displayed recast: 2.43), I used a rotation of HT CT CT for a few minutes. After taking out unbuffed hits and crits...

Chaos Thrust ticked for 117 - 130.
Heavy Thrust hit for 615 - 678.
Impulse Drive hit for 652 - 716.
Disembowel hit for 796 - 878.
Chaos Thrust hit for 909 - 995.

With Disembowel factored out but Heavy Thrust applied to both, that puts physical hits at around 3.45843461 dpp and Chaos Thrust ticks at around 3.52857143. That's about 2.028% buff to DoTs for about 2.88% boost to direct GCD damage. And while that's more than before, uh... it doesn't quite appear to take SS-induced clipping penalties out of the game, now, does it ._.

Should I save power surge for jump? Or should I use it on SSD if they line up and jump is on Cool down?

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

With Disembowel factored out but Heavy Thrust applied to both, that puts physical hits at around 3.45843461 dpp and Chaos Thrust ticks at around 3.52857143. That's about 2.028% buff to DoTs for about 2.88% boost to direct GCD damage. And while that's more than before, uh... it doesn't quite appear to take SS-induced clipping penalties out of the game, now, does it ._.

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Eh, more of a boost than you're accounting for. Recall that there's a subtraction that happens after the potency multiplier (or at least there was in 2.5). This means that your CT ticks should have started out (in a 0 SS build) at less than 35/250 of your CT hits, even after factoring out Disembowel. In 2.5, seeing your Disembowel numbers, I would have pegged CT ticks as being about 113 minimum damage to about 125 maximum. If you manage to get the same STR/DET/WD with 0 SS, those are the numbers I would call even now. So I would say it's more like a 3% or 4% boost.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Should I save power surge for jump? Or should I use it on SSD if they line up and jump is on Cool down?

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Full Thrust IMHO. You do not want to double up on OGCD as that will cut into your weapon skill time. Especially with the animation lock of the jumps. IF you really want to double up, use it on Jump as Jump has a higher potency than SSD. Either way save Power Surge for a weapon skill, as you have plenty of weapon skills with a higher potency than Jump

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Originally Posted by Syrus_Draco

Full Thrust IMHO. You do not want to double up on OGCD as that will cut into your weapon skill time. Especially with the animation lock of the jumps. IF you really want to double up, use it on Jump as Jump has a higher potency than SSD. Either way save Power Surge for a weapon skill, as you have plenty of weapon skills with a higher potency than Jump

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Power Surge != Life Surge

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Originally Posted by spelley

Power Surge != Life Surge

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Oh my bad I misread XD Then yes save Power Surge for Jump. Like you mentioned Leo the CDs line up together to be used in conjunction. Use it on the more powerful of the two Jumps.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

I've got a vid on a few sneaky tips/tricks you can do to cheese your DPS up in the works if anyone is interested. I'll also do a write up for those who cba.

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it's pretty fun actually

from memory what i do

regular opener with pot at the start; save dfd. after your first CT combo, do two FT combos so the 3rd CT combo hits on prelude; use dfd on prelude, skip PH reapplication halfway into the cast in favor of landing a 4th hit before you disconnect too. get 3 gk's in prelude.

then for liberation just do your regular opener using everything, and skip PH for a 4th hit again. botd will wear off for a bit into warlord shell phase, but eh. as soon as he comes down, do ht (bfb if up, i forgot)>ph and snapshot PH on the damage vulnerable ravana before he changes, then continue regular rotation. if adds are ok even without you for a bit, remember to refresh CT and PH on the boss. save litany for swift dives, DFD on the boss when there's like 3 adds next to him; and if you have trouble hitting the adds with positionals, just hit them on the boss if he's close. make sure all of your major dps cooldowns are basically used up after the 3rd wave of adds.

after he comes back from chandrahas, HT as soon as he's vulnerable again and snapshot a normal PH before he changes into defensive mode. start CT combo and botd on disembowel; jump back in with ssd as soon as you get pushed then only use cooldowns that will come back up for swift liberation, keeping botd up while doing so. for roses, you can be pretty greedy and get a few hits in a few seconds after kiting; or even better, you can just walk up to the boss after they start moving if you don't have one tethered on you.

then for swift liberation, all of your cds should be up, including xpot and litany pop them all and just murder the boss, then be sure to use whatever else is up before the end of final liberation. after the fire aoe comes out, you can get really greedy and HT->ID the boss and get away before the spin knockback hits, just be sure to be at max range. if you do get that off, you can snapshot a chaos thrust on the increased damage form before he does warlord shell, then just kill him from here. ideally you kill him before final liberation finishes casting with lb3 etc to get better numbers

We're kinda similar in thought process then.

I pull with the tank for starters. This gives me enough time to move around Ravana and hit my first positional easily. I unload everything at the first, use my first GK, then if my groups burst is good, I save my second GK and burst them both during Prelude for the additional damage. I also just go x2 TTT during that cast.

For Liberation Casts, HT -> ID - > DIS -> TTT x2 + LS is the best thing to do and pop all my cooldowns, except BotD. Save it for the next phase. If timed correctly and if you have 2.39GCD (which you should with Deep-Fried Okeanis), you can land all of that in for highest PPS. I usually end this phase now, without a Ninja, at around 1.1k (I have my i190 spear now as well).

For the adds, I usually do my WT/FC's on him. I also do ID -> DIS on the spirits as it's the highest PPS to get them down, plus I can only get 2 GCDs max on them, then throw CT + cheeky PHs on Ravana (Got to paddle that damage)

For Pillars, I do something similar, I go HT -> ID -> DIS, no cooldowns, SSD/Elusive Jump back, then continue my burst rotation. I don't know if I should restart my combo from scratch or carry it on, as HT will always fall off for the last 4th doing it like this. Might try out different things, but I usually just restart it here.

Also for balls, something very risky. If you time it perfectly and attack straight as you get back to him, 30s into the phase, you should be putting DI/CT. Hold the GK just before he casts balls. Basically, the balls only explode once they tether. Until the tethers are up, you can walk through and around them with nothing happening. So I always position myself at maximum distance from Ravana and always get my last hit in when I see the balls, whilst positioning myself in between the balls. Once I see the tethers, I then go back to the wall, do the circle, then the second I see the tethers disappear, SSD/DFD, or run to ravana ASAP and finish off my combo, allowing me to keep BotD throughout this mechanic. You should have enough time during this to keep BotD up, as long as you landed the Disembowel and had at least 10s left on your duration. Kinda hard to explain, but easy to demonstrate.

EDIT: 3 gks in prelude? Woah. I need to fix up slightly then. I can only max out 2.

EDIT 2: Looks like my WD Formula is still consistent. Also, it looks like Skillspeed is scaling DoTs from 0. Recorded myself with 72WD, 827 STR, 373 DET. The slope or damage multiplier per skillspeed is 0.0192(rounded). Interestingly, 1/slope = 51, dead on.

oh, i might have meant 2 gks in prelude. typo or bad memory, but thinking about it, 3 in prelude sounds unreasonable w

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Eh, more of a boost than you're accounting for. Recall that there's a subtraction that happens after the potency multiplier (or at least there was in 2.5). This means that your CT ticks should have started out (in a 0 SS build) at less than 35/250 of your CT hits, even after factoring out Disembowel.

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I must confess I didn't investigate that very closely. Nonetheless, I still have my old stuff kicking around to test a 0 SS build...

You can definitely hit 2 GKs in prelude, the timing is very tight. Sometime's I'll miss it or cast it as I'm backing off at practically max range before GK cooldown comes off. Might be worth dropping a PH to 100% get that 3rd GK off. (Skillspeed food and/or AST card would help).

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

As a DRG that secondaries tanking jobs, none of this. Cmon now, you have the best aggro dump in the game and a shiny aggro meter under your name... don't perpetuate loldrg by not watching your hate D: Especially now with these positionals!

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My secondary is WAR as well so I know exactly what it feels like to lose hate on something in a pull. :) I manage my aggro fine but I just think it's funny when I do take aggro. EJ's cooldown makes it unsuitable as a reliable aggro dump in trash pulls as you can make six pulls in the time it takes to pop again.

Anyone did some test or have some opinion on how the Expanse Partisan works compared to the Iwatoshi-Kai? Do you think that right now the two Physical Damage points are better than the Determination +68?

Since we still don't have any accurate test on how the stats are working in Heavensward compared to ARR probably the best way to approach the equip is going "blind" for Weapon Damage but I'm interested in an opinion from Dervy and other Calculator-Dragoons.

In the same regard, what's your thoughts about Asuran Hachigane of Maiming/Valerian Dragoon's Barbut and Yasha Ring of Slaying/Sharlayan Pankratiast's Ring?

Hello all! Hit 60 last night (finally!) so I got to mess around with WT and Geirskogul. Unfortunately, my gear is still fairly low so I can't quite fit the rotation that Dervy, Thandiel, and Aurily have worked so hard to create and post here for others to share. However, I'd like to post my contribution to this thread, as I feel like I've managed to find a sweet spot. One of the main issues I had upon learning of the 4th combo + GK being added to our rotation was "Oh noes where do I put it in my Crossbar?!?!"

I messed with a couple of configurations, one that was overly complicated (and terrible quite frankly, as I couldn't get my fingers to break a years worth of muscle memory). But alas, I believe I have found a really good setup for those playing with a controller. Caveat of course, everyone has their own preferences, but as I said. I had years of muscle memory programmed, and after configuring my crossbar to this, it took me a few turns and already it felt natural. Muscle memory isn't quite to where it used to be before, but I feel it'll get there very very quickly. Anyway, here goes!

Set 1

http://i.imgur.com/KA3mef3.png

Concept is that basically, everything (well, just about everything) in our rotation is on Set 1. General flow is from right moving clockwise. This allows you to hit the main moves (HT->IDC) using the face buttons while weaving using the dpad. Once you are done with your HT->IDC combo, then you move to the LT to initiate the Ph->TTT combo, again using the dpad to weave the jumps.

But wait, you said this is supposed to help with the 4th combo and GK? Also, where is Life Surge?!?

http://i.imgur.com/y2IBBPY.png

Ah, here's the solution.

What I did was go to Character Customization->Hotbar->Crossbar. I enable Crossbar 3 (Enable customization for when weapon is drawn) and dumped LS, FC, WT, and GK in there putting them on the face buttons of BOTH sides of Set 3 (I also had LB and KF in there on the dpad, but those were just left over from my previous modification. Those can be ignored of course, or you can put whatever on there). Once you've dumped the skills you want into Set 3, you can disable Crossbar 3 (so it doesn't cycle when you are actually in battle).

Finally, you want to enable the Expanded Crossbar Display Type:

Display LT->RT = Cross Hotbar 3 Left
Display RT->LT = Cross Hotbar 3 Right

Essentially, at the end of your RT combo (when you hit CT), you keep holding RT and hold LT along with it to display Cross Hotbar 3 Right: giving you the LS, FC (flank), WT (rear), and GK.

Then, you let go of the RT (while still holding LT), which starts your LT combo (PH->TTT)

At this point, you follow the same motion with one minor variation. If you are going to stick LS with FT, then you hold RT to pull up LS, let go of RT and press FT (they are mapped to the same button Y for this reason).

Then, you hold RT again to bring up the same setup for FC, WT, and GK.

There's a few stuff missing, such as the AOE stuff and the Piercing Talon and such, which I moved to the 2nd set. There's also no room for BL or Pots in Set 1, but those are not often used and can be set to Set 2 as well.

I also enabled the Vertical Hotbars, to display the cooldowns of 2nd wind, Bloodbath, Mercy Stroke, LS, Battle Littany, etc without flipping to Set 2.

I did try and copy Dervy by adding FC and WT in the middle (larger size) so I can see it before I pull up the Extended Crossbar. But because of how the Crossbar displays the name of the moves, it blocks it. This can be disabled in the setting, and perhaps I'll do this later once I really get the placement memorized if I find that I need the extra .few seconds to position before I pull up FC/WT.

Anyway, sorry long winded post. As I said, to each his own. But I really found this setup to be very intuitive and thought it might help others who are struggling with button placement after the additions in Heavensward.

So if you use a controller how do you hit BL or LS? Do you just click thrm with your mouse?

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

So if you use a controller how do you hit BL or LS? Do you just click thrm with your mouse?

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think its a post in progress judging by wording

Quick question to our fellas drg around! Ive been reading this topic since page 40 and haven't noticed talk about our CDs skills (like BFB / IR and others): considering a fight that has no interruption, just pure dps check, should we use em right as they come by or wait to align with others CD? Think i heard that LS is best used to crit FT, but i have no idea about the others :(

Another question: i also noticed that some CDs are used together in the opening (BL+BFB / IR + BOTD). You guys use em with a macro or press 2 button? I'm asking this cause im from Brazil and i tried to use 2 oGCD skills inbetween combos and i always fail (probably due to ping, i always get 200+-).

Use WTFast or Pingzapper, then check out "leatrix latency fix", It should help with latency issues.

And use them right away. The only one you might wanna hold is GK.

In my opener, I do HT - (IR) - ID - (BFB+BL) - Dis - (BotD) - CT - (PS) - 4th, as I figured if I use BFB right after HT it'll go down before the 4th after Full Thrust. Dunno if I'm talking bollocks, but that's how I've done it since I hit 60.

EDIT: I'm dumb - our increased skillspeed obviously takes care of that. Ah well, old habits and all that.

By the way, the proper pronounciation of "Geirskogul" is Jeer-skogool. The Geir part is pronounced like a french J, as in the french name Jacques.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

By the way, the proper pronounciation of "Geirskogul" is Jeer-skogool. The Geir part is pronounced like a french J, as in the french name Jacques.

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That's how a french speaker would pronounce it, but Geirskogul is actually the name of a Norse Valkyrie roughly meaning "Spear-Shaker". Old Norse pronunciation would be something like "Gair-skoh-gl".

You can hear this woman pronounce it at about 13 secs: https://youtu.be/azcEXlq5vzk?t=12s

Pretty sure it's pronounced like gekky-wekky. Look at how it's spelt.

Meh, I'll probably just pronounce it Guyer-Sko-gul.

I wonder how it's spelled in JP. I'm guessing Gaisukogu or Gaisukoguru, probably the latter.

gear skull girl

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I wonder how it's spelled in JP. I'm guessing Gaisukogu or Gaisukoguru, probably the latter.

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ゲイルスコグル (geirusukoguru)

Gehr-Es-Ko-Gull

"The Geiger Counter ability"

Laser beam.

My healer calls it "Dragon Shot"

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...4718213mp8.jpg

Must resist urge to make a text macro

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Ravana tips...

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Great information in this thread!

Dervy, can you add a section to the beginning of the thread to cover fight specific tips like you and Aurily posted? Will make it much easier to find and refer to. :)

@Dervy, so I been lvling my Dragoon, do I CT combo after the first full thurst combo, even though those dots are buffed up stronk. I understand thats it FT combo, CT combo, repeat now, correct?

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

@Dervy, so I been lvling my Dragoon, do I CT combo after the first full thurst combo, even though those dots are buffed up stronk. I understand thats it FT combo, CT combo, repeat now, correct?

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At your level, you can do the full rotation. :) Looking at Dervy's initial post:

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H -> IDC4 -> P -> TTT4 -> Repeat

Let's break this down. Both Heavy Thrust and Phlebotomize has a duration of 24 seconds. With a Global Cooldown of 2.4s, 24/2.4 = 10. So this means you can fit 10 GCDs in between each of your Phlebotomzie and Heavy Thrusts.

IDC4 = 4 GCDs
TTT4 = 4 GCDs
P = 1 GCD
That's 1 GCD left over, which can be used to keep a fully buffed Heavy Thrust up. This also means you have no downtime on Heavy Thrust, giving you a full 15% damage boost to your DPS.

The same applies to Phlebotomize:
IDC4 = 4 GCDs
TTT4 = 4 GCDs
H = 1 GCD
This means you will never lose HT, nor clip a Phlebotomize tick at 2.4 GCD.

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You will clip Disembowel and CT by a few seconds, but it's much better than doing another TTT combo like in the old rotation and thus drop Dis and CT completely before you have time to get them back up.

Had a go at ravana ex last night, hit a problem with the first seeing whatever, if it's left or right my group are asking me to hold back cause my tank can't hit front and I'm ripping aggro..doesn't feel good not being able to ham the burst out..