OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

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Originally Posted by Kyomih

I assume you are referring to me. I am all for a good discussion, so instead of just implying I am an idiot why don't you discuss your opinion/experience in a more meaningful way and show me why I am totally wrong?

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Never called you nor implied that you were an idiot, don't put words in my mouth plz. And I said exactly what I thought. That I didn't know if you were being misleading or if you really believed that.

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Originally Posted by Alu79

I don't know if you are being purposely disingenuous or if you really believe all that, but a lot of that is just opinions, assumptions or just plain wrong. And no one said SCH is inferior to WHM, we said our aoe healing is. Stop shifting the focus of the discussion and stay on topic.

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You don't even know what the topic is at this point. You might just be whining about AE heals, but as others have pointed out, SCH has a strength in tank heals. It's called BALANCE.

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Originally Posted by Kupo_Nut

I just want Succor to have the double shield effect (as it should have been, since it's SCH unique ability) and stack with other SCHs (this is a horrible design mistake, and it should be corrected asap).

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Double shields aren't needed and they cheese mechanics. I don't want to cheese mechanics. I want to be functional with out my whm overlord shadowing me. My idea for succor to absorb previous succor would shore up our big gaping aoe heal hole in our kit nicely.

I'll repost my idea - Currently succor is 150 potency heal/shield which is fine for preshielding but useless once dmg has been dealth. What it SHOULD do it consume the previous succors shield and add that to the healing of the new one.

Cast succor for 200heal/200shield -> cast second succor becomes 400heal/200shield. But only adds healing based on the shields current strength. So cast succor 200s/200h -> took 100 dmg -> cast second succor 300h/200s. This would patch that big ass glaring hole in our kit.

Whm niche is burst healing and regens
Sch niche is dmg mitigation

Where in either of those does it say they should have big glaring weaknesses?

Succor is = to Medica 2, what's missing is medica 1.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

You don't even know what the topic is at this point. You might just be whining about AE heals, but as others have pointed out, SCH has a strength in tank heals. It's called BALANCE.

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Already debunked. And the topic is aoe healing. Whm are the ones coming in and derailing the thread. Please stay on topic everyone. Apollo can't keep up.

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Originally Posted by Alu79

Already debunked. And the topic is aoe healing. Whm are the ones coming in and derailing the thread. Please stay on topic everyone. Apollo can't keep up.

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It hasn't been debunked. Sticking your head in the saand and saying "this is about AE heals" does not preclude balance discussion that points out WHY one has better AE heal burst. A coil running SCH comes in and answers your question, and you stick your fingers in your ears and keep trying to make 1:1 comparisons and ignoring everything that doesn't suit your argument for MOAR BUFFS.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

It hasn't been debunked. Sticking your head in the saand and saying "this is about AE heals" does not preclude balance discussion that points out WHY one has better AE heal burst. A coil running SCH comes in and answers your question, and you stick your fingers in your ears and keep trying to make 1:1 comparisons and ignoring everything that doesn't suit your argument for MOAR BUFFS.

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And you digging your heels in the ground and taking the experiences of a few as the gospel truth w/o having any first hand experience yourself doesn't change a thing. You are being beyond small and petty at this point, you offer no info, experience or objective point of view. All you do is parrot SCH IS FINE THEY DON'T NEED BUFF THEY MIGHT TAKE MY RAID SLOT SO KEEP THEM UP!!

Petty.

And no one is asking for straight buffs, god why are whm's so damn dense? We need pet fixes and an aoe. That is it. Really guys. That's it.

I'll support pet UI enhancements, because it isn't particularly easy to use - although I don't think it matters much in terms of raw efficiency. The auto AI isn't horrific, at least not to the point where a good player is completely unable to synergize in tandem with it.

I still don't understand the issues with our AoE or shielding. We have benefits from precast - roughly equal to stoneskin, except scholars can use that cast a 10% stoneskin to get more pre-fight mitigation than a WHM (can't use regen). That gives scholars the clear edge on mob mitigation and aggro mitigation. The shielding, particularly on AoE is far less aggro due to the shields being half of the overall effect. The WHM is an aggro machine due to 100% of the throughput coming from HP heals rather than mitigation.

My Aldo is consistently 600-750 and Succor is consistently 300+. Far from useless.

I think scholars start off at a disadvantage with WHM initially. However, we grow at an exponential rate due to shield mechanics. The gap closes once you get to AF2 gear. Yes, it's still not the same but I don't think that's a particularly concerning issue. A scholar is there to make the WHM more efficient. Lessen the need for over heal (and as a result unnecessary aggro gen).

Whether or not sch/sch or whm/sch or whm/whm is all equal seems rather besides the point to me. The fact that sch/sch sucks doesn't raise the issue of balance to me at all. Whether or not you need a scholar is a legitimate conversation, much along the lines of the paladin vs. gladiator discussion. I personally like them for the group efficiencies. When played right, it should make the tanks job much easier and alleviate the over heal issues from WHM. That alone, is worth quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Whether or not sch/sch or whm/sch or whm/whm is all equal seems rather besides the point to me.

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I agree, although i'm sure someone will point out that df means its entirely possible for two sch to end up in the same raid. Then again, if you are trying to use df to clear end game content i think that presents a different problem.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

My Aldo is consistently 600-750 and Succor is consistently 300+. Far from useless.

I think scholars start off at a disadvantage with WHM initially. However, we grow at an exponential rate due to shield mechanics. The gap closes once you get to AF2 gear. Yes, it's still not the same but I don't think that's a particularly concerning issue. A scholar is there to make the WHM more efficient. Lessen the need for over heal (and as a result unnecessary aggro gen).

Whether or not sch/sch or whm/sch or whm/whm is all equal seems rather besides the point to me. The fact that sch/sch sucks doesn't raise the issue of balance to me at all. Whether or not you need a scholar is a legitimate conversation, much along the lines of the paladin vs. gladiator discussion. I personally like them for the group efficiencies. When played right, it should make the tanks job much easier and alleviate the over heal issues from WHM. That alone, is worth quite a bit.

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In this capacity we behave more like a bard than a stand alone healer. I'd roll a bard if I wanted to buff someone else.

And how can you say that the fact sch/sch sucks doesn't raise balance concerns to you? ><