We need an AH

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Before you even begin to try and make the statement that an AH is "objectively better", you have to define the parameters of the AH you are talking about... which you have failed to do.

Second, even if one or two aspects of an AH are objectively better, that doesn't mean the AH as a whole is objectively better.

Finally, you cannot prove that an aspect of the AH is objectively better. People like different things. Some people may like running to an NPC to pick up their item. That makes the point subjective. You are trying to make the claim that getting an item instantly or getting an item from your mailbox is "better for everyone" (a restatement of 'objectively better')... which is impossible to prove.

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My claim was that the current system, with NPCs, can be replicated without the NPCs and void of all the problems that NPCs bring.

Edit: and I should clarify, by NPCs, I mean retainers. If purchases are done from a single, non-retainer NPC, that's a better system.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

My claim was that the current system, with NPCs, can be replicated without the NPCs and void of all the problems that NPCs bring.

Edit: and I should clarify, by NPCs, I mean retainers. If purchases are done from a single, non-retainer NPC, that's a better system.

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You are still failing to provide the specific parameters of the system you claim to be "objectively better".

I can tell you right now that there are benefits to having the current system over a "one NPC" system... so that alone proves it's not objectively better.

Auction House solves nothing. Wards are just fine

If even one person likes the MW system even as is, it does kind of throw out the argument that something is better for everyone. Since it's like saying Cadillac are the most efficient cars so everyone should choose them over Honda despite the fact someone may personally like a Honda better.

It all comes down to personal taste and opinions in the end.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

You are still failing to provide the specific parameters of the system you claim to be "objectively better".

I can tell you right now that there are benefits to having the current system over a "one NPC" system... so that alone proves it's not objectively better.

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The parameters of the system I'm claiming is better is one that's identical to this one, except purchases and sales are done through a single NPC, in a single zone.

Would you like to list some of the benefits of this system that a one NPC model doesn't have and couldn't be replicated with it?

Wow can't believe I went to the trouble to try and come up with something that would keep everyone happy and all you guys can do it argue between yourselves ; ;
Instead of bickering can't we just throw ideas around ^^

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

The parameters of the system I'm claiming is better is one that's identical to this one, except purchases and sales are done through a single NPC, in a single zone.

Would you like to list some of the benefits of this system that a one NPC model doesn't have and couldn't be replicated with it?

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Sure, just a few:

-The current system allows the opportunity to sell additional items to the buyer. Example: Buyer is looking for a Potion. He searches and finds cheapest retainer. Visiting that retainer, he also sees that retainer is selling a weapon that would be beneficial to him. So now, instead of just buying one item, he buys two.

-The current system adds an aspect for roleplay.

-The current system discourages exploitation and manipulation of the market.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm going to convince you to change your mind... it's quite obvious your opinion differs. BUT, the point is that you cannot make the claim that your idea is objectively better, because that would require that it would be better in all ways for everyone... and that just isn't the case. It's a subjective topic.

You are right, and people do like different things. Hey, why don't we get SE to put it to a vote in the 3rd Players Poll. People who like the MW system will lose. And a couple of posts back proves to me what its all about. Its about frickin RPers wanting to roleplay. Which is ridiculous. You do have a right to your opinion, but you are not the majority. And if SE expects people to come back let alone be attracted to the game, they will do the smart thing and have instant delivery system for buying and selling (aka: cater to the majority). I would still be OK with having both systems in place, but I can see the RPers are so selfish, they can't possibly allow it. I'll be honest, I could care less if it stomps all over your sickening little RP dreams. I'd like a compromise, but not many people replying on this forum seem to want to do that. So then let SE put it to a popular vote, and watch the RPers cry from the loudly resounding results.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Wow can't believe I went to the trouble to try and come up with something that would keep everyone happy and all you guys can do it argue between yourselves ; ;
Instead of bickering can't we just throw ideas around ^^

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Actually I like some of your ideas. :)

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Sure, just a few:

-The current system allows the opportunity to sell additional items to the buyer. Example: Buyer is looking for a Potion. He searches and finds cheapest retainer. Visiting that retainer, he also sees that retainer is selling a weapon that would be beneficial to him. So now, instead of just buying one item, he buys two.

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This can be replicated with a window/single NPC interface. Instead of "physically" (meaning, moving the character to where this retainer is, and then examining it) browsing the retainer, the buyer in question is presented with a list of available shops/bazaars/retainers/whatevers, and like now, the ones with the item he is looking for are marked appropriately. Upon browsing this shop/bazaar/retainer/whatever, he is given a list of all items sold by it, which includes the weapon. There is no longer a need to change zones if the retainer is in a different ward, the retainer is no longer subject to any penalty for having different item categories for sale, and the whole transaction happens much much faster. Dragonica has something like this; you can browse all player owned shops/bazaars from the menu in any city, and purchase the items remotely. When you search for item X, you are presented with a list of all shops that have item X, and you must then navigate the interface to that specific shop and purchase the item from the shop.

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-The current system adds an aspect for roleplay.

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This is something subjective and not measurable.

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-The current system discourages exploitation and manipulation of the market.

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NPCs have nothing to do with it, but rather the way the economy and the purchasing and selling actions happen. All of this can be replicated without using NPCs.

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I'm not going to pretend that I'm going to convince you to change your mind... it's quite obvious your opinion differs. BUT, the point is that you cannot make the claim that your idea is objectively better, because that would require that it would be better in all ways for everyone... and that just isn't the case. It's a subjective topic.

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I can when the only arguments against it are "but some people LIKE the way it is!" and nothing that is measurable.