Another World First Clear got disqualified due to "Cheating"

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Originally Posted by Schan

From my understanding in Japan it's illegal for companies to scan... "privately owned"? computers so there's that.

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At the very least we should have a definition for what's harmful to the game. Defining every mod as illegal and never taking any countermeasure to ban people, outside of leaked screenshots, is always going to cause the situation we have.

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

While I agree about abiding by the ToS, this would kill the game. No, not because you remove AM, but because if they did that, they would need to do the same thing with the moon. And that population of players is massive. Your solution is also incredibly dangerous as someone could join a party that doesn't advertise "allegan melon", but then someone turns it on and uses it anyway. Boom, you're banned just because you joined an innocent party.

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I think there's a definitive difference between going after moon and cosmetic mods and going after people doing blatant advertising in PF. Granted I say use the same rules for both say if someone is doing cosmetic mods in the WFR. It's the same concept. Granted SE has banned people before for cosmetic mods and HUD mods.

If the stance SE wants to maintain is some sort of grey landscape where they know people are modding but actively tell people essentially " we don't know if you're doing it but don't let us catch you", then yeah if idiots can't help themselves and get caught anyway, SE should be harsh with their retort and consequence. It's not hard to say if you can't do your due diligence with hiding your mods than you deserve to be banned.

Also for the record, I added a caveat with my suggestion on banning. They absolutely should ban players that join parties that advertised AM. These players are willingly choosing to benefit from something they know is against TOS. As for those that join a party that suddenly marks appear, two things:

1) With punishment being pronounced, people will naturally start leaving the party.

2) People can report the person doing the markings, which will start happening.

If people choose to stay in a party after AM goes out, then yes they are liable should SE become wise to such a party using said mods. Granted I don't see how SE would even know it's happening if no one says anything. The difference is, it suddenly also significantly becomes harder to complete these duties immediately as the overall playerbase has no idea how to do some mechs without AM, like Titan Gaols for example and chances are recruiting for these duties with no one having AM (since you can't advertise it) suddenly increases alot.

Eventually it would rebalance and people will do mechs the normal way but its all about shifting the culture on modding significantly. Again if the goal is to legitimize WFR or at least you want people to tackle content in more good faith, you have to get the community on board enough to looking down as a whole on modding this content. It can happen even in a game like this but sans something like Anti-cheat being installed on peoples computers, the only real solution SE has is harsh punishments on flagrant offenders. Maintaining the grey stance they have benefits all of us. Thus SE should be going after those openly abusing and we the players should actively support them in that endeavor. It protects the modding community just as much by calling out the idiots.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

As raid lead you identify the person who performs badly and kick him from the group, as it was the requirement to know your stuff before you joined, as you made that clear in the partyfinder description.
You don't really need tools for that I would argue. There are indicators that will give you enough information, aggro bar is one but not perfect. Looking at buff timings, looking at downtimes, if they are casting etc. once you know the mechanics they become routine and you can spend more time looking to optimize I guess.

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So I have to police the entire fight to find that 1 person that performs bad and not use 10 seconds using act finding the problem. Sounds like the most backwards logic I have ever heard. I really love waisting around 10 mins of my time per person to check if they press buttons. Also you can write a lot in a party finder description if you get prog liar in a clear group then good luck finding these without act if the problem really is the dps check even 4 weeks later then week 1

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Originally Posted by brinn12

At the very least we should have a definition for what's harmful to the game. Defining every mod as illegal and never taking any countermeasure to ban people, outside of leaked screenshots, is always going to cause the situation we have.

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If they did that, people using it will still twisting their words to suit themselves. It just doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

And what happens if you do really good yourself but still hit the enrage multiple times because one person in the group does not press his buttons and does waist the time of 7 other people ? What would you do as a party leader in this situation if you don’t know but you are stuck at this fight for more then…… let’s say 6 hours because people in pf are not that good. But only very specific people. How do you know what person is waisting your time and wants a carry and what person actually wants the kill.

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You do what we used to do: you take people separately, on a dummy/mob, and you test. Test, test and test again, until you find the weakest link. As for the AOE, I may have misunderstood what you meant, but the game tells you what type of dmg you've received; you don't need ACT for that. You also needed honesty from your player, who must have realised over the course of the instances that when he was there, things were systematically slowing down, so there must be a problem... And that the only common denominator was him. Observation is also very easy on FFXIV, and when you're playing the class it's very easy to spot the player who's messing around on his side.


I'm not really ‘against’ addons, but to claim that they've only had a positive impact would be a lie. ACT is a good tool, that's a fact; but it's also, like all the dps meter and their associated sites, things that have had an impact on the rate of mastery of the class, and therefore the rate and speed of clear, and by extension the rate at which patches need to be released. Addons are largely responsible for the increasingly bulimic consumption of MMORPG players. So yes, a majority of players are happy to do without these extra stages, which are clearly tedious at times: but it's not without consequences. As a side effect, it has also completely wiped out a whole category of players who weren't the most excellent raiders (or not necessarily) but had a real place as connoisseurs of the game, and theorybuilders.

Addons are a headache to manage, mainly because not enough attention is paid to the impact they have on the overall health of the game and too much on the so-called ‘quality of life’ (well, having said that, you're right: some things should have been implemented earlier). Wow didn't succeed, and was literally eaten up by the guides and addons, so much so that entire systems of the game were called into question (talent tree).

Someone who complains they have to learn how to adapt to a challenge in a videogame like it's the most absurd expectation ever shouldn't be leading a raid party in the first place. Someone who is afraid of being pointed out by the leader if they under-perform again and again shouldn't be raiding either.

In all the statics I've joined in 12 years of playing this, we never needed ACT. It's not that complicated to clear raids without it if your party doesn't have anyone who thinks they need to yell at everyone nor any snowflake who thinks their heart will turn to dust if the party tells them to improve their dps. You know. All you need is a static of mature adults who don't expect a fast clear time.

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Originally Posted by cutestfox

If they need hacks to play the game, and don't want to play the game without hacks... I mean? Why cater to this demographic by allowing them to thrive at the expense of everyone else?

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Oh idk, maybe money? lmao

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Also for the record, I added a caveat with my suggestion on banning. They absolutely should ban players that join parties that advertised AM. These players are willingly choosing to benefit from something they know is against TOS. As for those that join a party that suddenly marks appear, two things:

1) With punishment being pronounced, people will naturally start leaving the party.

2) People can report the person doing the markings, which will start happening.

If people choose to stay in a party after AM goes out, then yes they are liable should SE become wise to such a party using said mods. Granted I don't see how SE would even know it's happening if no one says anything. The difference is, it suddenly also significantly becomes harder to complete these duties immediately as the overall playerbase has no idea how to do some mechs without AM, like Titan Gaols for example and chances are recruiting for these duties with no one having AM (since you can't advertise it) suddenly increases alot.

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This is just not feasible. Players will always circumvent the system to not advertise something they are advertising if it would get them in trouble. That is why parse parties use the word "barse" instead. If the word "barse" would also flag them, they would just use something else. Its the same with the melon. How can square ban someone for joining a party that says "I have it". Its an impossible situation. Even you already pointed out that you can't punish someone for staying in a party when AM goes out. Its just a marking system. How are they to truly know if 3rd party did it?

How is this shocking to anyone when NA PF ultimates are full of open cheaters with "allagan melon".

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Originally Posted by Mortex

And what happens if you do really good yourself but still hit the enrage multiple times because one person in the group does not press his buttons and does waist the time of 7 other people ? What would you do as a party leader in this situation if you don’t know but you are stuck at this fight for more then…… let’s say 6 hours because people in pf are not that good. But only very specific people. How do you know what person is waisting your time and wants a carry and what person actually wants the kill.

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If you know the jobs and you know the concept of the bosses and how jobs works, you would be able to spot it without being able to see it in a parse, and that is all what can be said about that, how do you rule them out when the parsers is down to eg. Patches of FFXIV, or do you not play at all when that occur?

It asks questions as well.

These people were always cheaters. It was obvious. It won't change. How about SE makes content like midcore or anything for the majority playerbase then update after update of savages and ultimates? There is your solution. Stop fixating on this stuff such a small percentage of cheaters, i mean players, actually do.