Character disconnect and disappointing Player Agency in Dawntrail's MSQ [Spoilers]

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Originally Posted by RabendaShin

This post will contain spoilers for the Dawntrail MSQ.

I am about to finish my Dawntrail MSQ experience, and am reflecting upon the story told. There will be paraphrasing, so do correct me if I am absolutely incorrect in what I remember from the story.

An MMORPG needs to railroad the player character for plot reasons or mechanical ones, but in previous story experiences it all seemed relatively natural. There were always good reasons to do the things we needed to do, even if we didn't agree with them. We were also able to voice that disagreement, albeit in limited means.
FFXIV has never been a game about meaningful choices (we are mere actors in a grand play), yet somehow this is the first time playing where I feel an absolute disconnect with my character and the choices presented for her to take.

The time this disconnect hit me hardest was when Wuk Lamat asked me to refer to her as "lamaty'i", a term of endearment reserved for family. I had not particularly enjoyed much of my time glued to the third promise, so I opted to respond with the usually delightful "..." option expecting at least a somewhat snide comment. Instead, one of the Scions, a character I care for and trust, informs Wuk my character is "at a loss for words" for being asked this...[chopped due to character limit]

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While I don't agree with every point here, I definitely agree with the feeling of disconnect. Although for me it comes at one of the weirdest points: Urqopacha, when we're confronting those Yok Hoy who are not aligned with Gulool Ja Ja. And again, in Living Memory. This has always *kind of* been a problem with the "why is the WoL just standing there?" moments, but it never really crept into the story in meaningful ways outside of that until now. This is kind of my biggest problem with Wuk Lamat too--not the character herself, but the fact that the story bends itself backwards to fit her ideals and prove her right even when common sense would dictate otherwise.

And the fact it makes us bend over backwards to do it too makes it kind of personal.

I once watched a film critic's take on this in "Anatomy of a Failure" for certain movies that fell flat, and in one of them, he mentions how a big failing of one movie was that the hero wasn't pushing the plot forward, the plot was pushing him forward, and it kind of feels the same way here.

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Originally Posted by Basteala

I once watched a film critic's take on this in "Anatomy of a Failure" for certain movies that fell flat, and in one of them, he mentions how a big failing of one movie was that the hero wasn't pushing the plot forward, the plot was pushing him forward, and it kind of feels the same way here.

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I studied literature and film, and I know that particular critic’s channel. I’m a big fan. You could say I view all media I take in through the lens of a film critic, and perhaps I am for that reason harsher and more analytical towards Dawntrail’s presentation. I’m certain more parallels can be found in that critic’s videos that would give more insight into what didn’t work in the writing.

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Originally Posted by Endy_Sinkai

I truly do not understand this whole idea people are coming up with that "this was Wuks story." No. Stop right there ✋️. Every single piece of marketing PR live letter fan fest ect ect said nothing about this being wuks journey.

This was always market since jump as OUR new adventure. So why In the name of bloody twelve am I the BG NPC?

There is a clear difference between 1.0-EW and DT. But at no point where we ever told during any part of the literal year from NA FF to DT launch that this was anything else besides OUR new chapter.

So if you feel lied to by yoshi P and the marketing team then good because you where and you are not a complete white knight simp for this sorry excuse of an msq.

Because had they told us even 1/100th of the truth of what this expansion was I bet no where near the same amount of people would have bought it.

This is the first time since 1.0's launch I genuinely feel lied to by the dev team and wish I could issue a full refund.

I cannot even bring myself to enjoy what content is there because I am primarily a story player and that is a complete mess.

Sorry I have been holding back since I beat the msq on day 3 of early access.

And honestly I wanted to explode with anger then. However I choose to sit on it and see how I felt.

It somehow has gotten even worse the more time I have sat with the story because now that the hype wore off and I can critically think about the story. There where soooooo many plot holes and horrible nonsense writing that its reminded me of season 8 of GOT levels of bad.

Sorry rant over

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I feel this so much. It makes me feel like we're now on She-Hulk levels of story-telling after Endgame. I can't even bring myself to go grind the ex trials or level other jobs because I just feel so shocked and disappointed.

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Originally Posted by RabendaShin

I studied literature and film, and I know that particular critic’s channel. I’m a big fan. You could say I view all media I take in through the lens of a film critic, and perhaps I am for that reason harsher and more analytical towards Dawntrail’s presentation. I’m certain more parallels can be found in that critic’s videos that would give more insight into what didn’t work in the writing.

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I wouldn't say harsher so much as "more articulate".

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Originally Posted by Iskra

I feel this so much. It makes me feel like we're now on She-Hulk levels of story-telling after Endgame. I can't even bring myself to go grind the ex trials or level other jobs because I just feel so shocked and disappointed.

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Real talk I've found a lot of the role quests and their characters (excluding caster) more interesting than Wuk Lamat's journey.

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Originally Posted by Basteala

Real talk I've found a lot of the role quests and their characters (excluding caster) more interesting than Wuk Lamat's journey.

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Real talk I felt more emotional about the Cornservant chain because Cornservant, while... a sentient corn cob... formed a strange yet fruitful partnership with the WoL, and made people's lives better in such small, simple ways.

It was a nice, pleasant departure from... whatever the MSQ was.

I'm very morbidly curious to see if they take the negative feedback to heart and change gears next expansion because whoa. :eek::confused:

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Originally Posted by Basteala

Real talk I've found a lot of the role quests and their characters (excluding caster) more interesting than Wuk Lamat's journey.

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Yes this so much. They are actually funny and had me chuckle instead of Wuk's lame seasickness joke that gets repeated a billion times or her cringe Tsundere scenes

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Originally Posted by fioravictorine

Yes this so much. They are actually funny and had me chuckle instead of Wuk's lame seasickness joke that gets repeated a billion times or her cringe Tsundere scenes

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Even on their own merits, though. I find some of the characters more compelling in general, even though they have so much less time to tell their story. The Tank and Melee ones in particular come to mind.

The Caster Role quest kinda fell flat for me though.

The main character in the caster role quest is pretty forgettable, but even that one is a masterclass showcase of how to give a silent protagonist agency even outside token combat based gameplay.

Like just the simple hand motion to block another character from escalating a potential hostage situation? Why wasn't that in MSQ when the same scenario happens at least twice there? That would be the mentor thing to do.

I mean I've probably harped enough on this, but in the MSQ we are instead told to sit the fuck down by Wuk Lamat or Gulool Ja Ja or someone, apparently completely incapable of defying the last person who gave us an order. We are also constantly making ourselves look stupid by pulling a weapon and then doing nothing with it for aforementioned reason. Like even if you make WoL ridiculously passive, you could at least make it seem like it's their own choice not to interfere, you know? Not ideal but still a huge improvement from the lapdog portrayal we got.

I haven't done caster yet, but outside of liking the running gag with the Namazu and the arrows in the melee role quest, I wasn't that invested in the characters in the role storylines. The villains have some fun moments. But the protagonist charcters havne't been anything special imo.