Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

I'd guess no but not sure if we ever had a example being made of someone streaming and using cactbot.
iirc they did crack down on people who used the auto markers though so there is some they are intolerante against, unless I imagined that.

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You'd be surprised how quickly action can be taken once something starts to go out of hand.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Only.. they're still breaking the rules. It doesn't matter if one thinks there's 'harm' in it or not. They are still breaking the rules, 3rd party software is not allowed or condoned. The only existing thing is the 'don't ask don't tell' policy, mostly because they can't and won't install spyware on your system. Doesn't mean that anyone who sees someone using 3rd party software isn't completely, one hundred percent right for reporting it.

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Yoshi P said in an interview that if you are getting in trouble for a 3rd party addon, then your are probably already in trouble for harassment. Looking at the actions and statements of the people running the show, it really looks like they only care about 3rd party addons when used for harrasment and exclusion. Sure they can report someone just simply using one, but it is a waste of time. We going to report all the housing people that abuse glitches to decorate? That is also against the rules. No? Then just move one from the 3rd party issue.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Nonsense. You did not do individual callouts, not in the way Cactbot does it. It does way more than you, as a caller, can ever hope to do.

"Wind out, ice in" during Intermediate Relativity is not the type of callout I'm talking about. This is simply calling the order of the timers on those mechanics.

You did not whisper in the ear of every single player in your party telling them where to go at every step of the mechanic.

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Well, for coil I did.

And half my static now is on Playstation. I just called out mechanics as they came up. Fortunately, they are competent, and able to read their own debuffs.

I don't give a crap how other people want to play this game. This isn't an Olympic race, nor am I paid to play, nor is there a prize at the end for a win. If I were in a world-first race or some kind of E-Sports event, or competing against other players in any way, then I could see getting bent over someone else using the FFXIV equivalent of Deadly Boss Mods. However, I don't do any of the above, nor do 98% of the other humans that play this game.

So, to those upset about someone else using third-party addons, if those users of addons are costing you money or prestige, I understand. You are the 2%. Put down your foot and complain. Talk to your media and publicity teams. Make sure your image isn't tarnished, and if it is, then send a cease-and-desist. I'm sure your legal people can take care of that.

But to anyone else - those of us that don't have media teams, publicity teams, or images to maintain - stop and think a beat. You're effectively playing playground basketball on the west side, but complaining about some dude playing playground basketball on the east side who uses a wooden crate to make his dunks. That guy isn't costing you money, prestige, or time, nor are his actions affecting your ball game in any way, shape or form. It's the exact same situation when you see streamers using addons. They're just some dude, across town, using a crutch in their game.

Come on, folks. Peel your eyes away from what other people are doing in benign, subjective entertainment, and focus on your own lives. If you somehow feel that intensely upset about someone else using addons, send in a report. You're right, addons violate the ToS / EULA. So do your community policing thing, and send in the name of the streamer, the time and date, and what you saw.

Then for god's sake, just move on. Obsessive behavior isn't a good look for anyone, especially when one obsesses over trivial things. It's even worse when that obsession is soapboxed, and a small crowd gathers. Then you have three dozen people in an echo chamber, all obsessed over some trivial thing, insistent of how egregious said thing is... and ignorant of the masses around them living normal lives, not obsessing over the big, bad thing (and unaffected by it).

Oh shoot. I know this path, I've been over this before. Dammit... I find myself here again:

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Originally Posted by Breakbeat

Another point in the 'social media is a friggin' disease' column.

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Definitely a +1 for 'It opens up the opportunity for people to become upset over benign behavior of other humans they don't even know - humans that don't affect them at all."

When my family sits down to play a board game, we just play. We don't stare at videos of other people playing board games, and get upset because some guy in Idaho is hiding $500 bills under the corner of the Monopoly board. When my brother and I played Sega Master System, Nintendo, Genesis, Turbografx and PC games in the '80s and '90s, we didn't stare at videos of other people using "turbo controllers" or Game Genie to cheat at games - though those things were happening all day, every day! We just played. Go figure.

What the hell has happened to people that they see a video now of other people doing things like this, and it bends them out of shape? You're not watching a tournament or a competition or the Super Bowl or the World Series, you're literally watching some other people in their bedrooms, playing (or cheating, fine, I'll concede cheating, it doesn't matter) on a video game and getting really quite upset over it.

Stop worrying about other peoples' benign behaviors. One should have enough to worry about in their own life without worrying about what addons some bloke in Greece is running.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Well, for coil I did.

And half my static now is on Playstation. I just called out mechanics as they came up. Fortunately, they are competent, and able to read their own debuffs.

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How do voice comms work with that? Discord app on a phone?

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Originally Posted by Laerune

If this is true then SE should just allow all these 3rd party addons.

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The devs watch people stream, several of whom use parsers. Yoshida himself congratulated TPS for their TEA clear despite the whole Paisley Park drama. They're well aware people use all these programs.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I would actually feel a lot better if they would just allow the addons or actually enforce their own TOS. Why is it so hard for them?

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Because they neither want to be responsible for them nor take the financial loss for banning them. Like I said in an earlier post, this all comes down to money. SE stands to lose significantly more than they would ever gain by actually enforcing their ToS.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Nonsense. You did not do individual callouts, not in the way Cactbot does it. It does way more than you, as a caller, can ever hope to do.

"Wind out, ice in" during Intermediate Relativity is not the type of callout I'm talking about. This is simply calling the order of the timers on those mechanics.

You did not whisper in the ear of every single player in your party telling them where to go at every step of the mechanic.

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Ironically, this is exactly how Cactbot calls that mechanic. It simply tells you the order of debuffs only once they appear. For most mechanics at least. Since Intermediate always gives the same two configurations, it's actually fairly easy to shotcall. In other words, Valkyrie is just as good as Cactbot.

Y'all put these programs on way higher a pedestal than they deserve. They aren't "whispering in your ear" every little thing. They'll call out debuffs all at once and that's about it.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

You'd be surprised how quickly action can be taken once something starts to go out of hand.

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Of course, like anything in life.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

How do voice comms work with that? Discord app on a phone?

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omg using 3rd party apps! /s

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Ironically, this is exactly how Cactbot calls that mechanic. It simply tells you the order of debuffs only once they appear. For most mechanics at least. Since Intermediate always gives the same two configurations, it's actually fairly easy to shotcall. In other words, Valkyrie is just as good as Cactbot.

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Cactbot can print large, bolded instructions directly to your screen the milisecond an ability is telegraphed (and sometimes before it's even telegraphed clientside), with customized text that doesn't just label the ability, but gives you personalized instructions on how to solve the mechanic. This isn't even in the same universe as traditional shotcalling in some encounters.

It can also be used to draw a timeline on your screen, showing you exact times until upcoming abilities come out.

https://i.imgur.com/eTWc10S.png

https://ezsoftware.github.io/cactbot...s_triggers.png

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Title.

I've been watching streamers do high end stuff and I see and hear programs announcing mechanics before they even exist on screen. Certain mechanics are randomized in the order they will occur and people are reacting to them far in advance.

Folks try to rationalize this as ok by saying, 'oh it's no different than having your raid lead call it', but let me counter with this; does your raid lead have precognition and can tell the order of random mechanics before they happen all the time? If not, then you're cheating. Plain and simple.

Reject me, oh forums mine.

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Report away bro

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Title.

I've been watching streamers do high end stuff and I see and hear programs announcing mechanics before they even exist on screen. Certain mechanics are randomized in the order they will occur and people are reacting to them far in advance.

Folks try to rationalize this as ok by saying, 'oh it's no different than having your raid lead call it', but let me counter with this; does your raid lead have precognition and can tell the order of random mechanics before they happen all the time? If not, then you're cheating. Plain and simple.

Reject me, oh forums mine.

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I mean, pretty much every fight in the game already has the full timeline figured out and you can just refer to that if you want to instead. Which is not much different honestly.