Criticism of Shadowbringers and the hostility there in

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I don't think it's fair to not highlight the hostility on both sides (perhaps fueled by it). I remember getting kicked from a discord for saying I didn't like such and such character, or that the story of 14 wasn't a masterstroke of genius. Or that such and such content wasn't up to SE's potential. Just look at any thread about Viera and Hrothgar problems and you'll see some intense hostility that we dare ask for the developer's time that was promised to us. Hostility in as much as the forum rules allow, that is. Things have gotten nastier in other corners of the net.

There's so much infighting over obvious issues with the game, and I can't help but think it's a sort of selfishness where if it's not a problem to you then it's not a problem at all. It's an issue with removing the MMO out of the MMORPG, and we really should be in solidarity over wanting the best gaming experience for everyone.

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Anything criticizing the main story specifically, or beloved characters is usually met with some intense backlash. Especially, suggestions for improvements to the new player experience, because ARR is God's gift to Earth. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Oh, that's just a sadly normal FFXIV players reaction to anyone mentioning WoW. Although, that is changing as more people finally stop using 14 as their side game and completely move over. Honestly, I'd love to have a discussion about why there's so much hatred for a game that isn't relevant to 14 outside of being another mmo with a similar combat style (surprise, this is why it's appealing to WoW players).

The hate is nearly one sided, as I've seen tons of friendly banter about 14 jobs in trade/lfg chat on WoW. I guess since it's a less volatile topic than whatever meta was happening in that game. You MENTION WoW in 14 and you're looking to get some paragraphs of someone having an absolute meltdown. HOWEVER I have collected a bunch of fresh sprouts from WoW who are having a blast.

Ahem, sorry for that tangent, but that example has very little to do with criticizing 14 and all to do with saying WoW and 14 in the same breath..

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Many FFXIV die hards see it as a competition between the two games, and they yearn to see WoW fail. I think it's a sense of jealousy that WoW is still the more popular MMO, despite FFXIV, in their minds, being the best game ever(!). Aside from that, I've seen many who put themselves on a pedestal, because they are an FFXIV player, rather than a WoW player. I've also read fears that the WoW player will ruin this game, and "they should stick to WoW instead". I honestly don't think I've seen such an intense sense of tribalism than when it comes to some FFXIV player's takes on WoW.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I've also read fears that the WoW player will ruin this game, and "they should stick to WoW instead". I honestly don't think I've seen such an intense sense of tribalism than when it comes to some FFXIV player's takes on WoW.

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I want to highlight this part here, because it's the most hilarious part to me. There is such a giant overlap of WoW and 14 players, but people keep their mouth shut about it while in Eorzea. I recently put my sub on hibernation, but WoW players have always been here. There was never a Grand Exodus of refugees. 14 was just more of a game to relax in, and many of my guildmates call it a "warm hug" after the mythic slog. Especially since 14 doesn't demand you run the hamster wheel to stay relevant.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Anything criticizing the main story specifically, or beloved characters is usually met with some intense backlash. Especially, suggestions for improvements to the new player experience, because ARR is God's gift to Earth. :rolleyes:.

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Because you are the perfect example of people who instead of "improving" something, I want to change it, which is precisely the problem that many have.

I am one of those who believes that the game continues to have the same content, the problem is that it is more scattered than in other expansions and the problem that people have when criticizing this seems almost stupid to me.

Why should they leave content that we ALREADY had in post of other content? This type of "make everyone happy" tactics even when you don't have the resources only makes the community much more divided and they blame each other that we are losing content. The game should ALWAYS aim to preserve what it has while it aspires to have more things but of course the community of this game has become accustomed to having to leave "x" content to have something different creating fights in the community .

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Originally Posted by Nayout

Because you are the perfect example of people who instead of "improving" something, I want to change it, which is precisely the problem that many have.

I am one of those who believes that the game continues to have the same content, the problem is that it is more scattered than in other expansions and the problem that people have when criticizing this seems almost stupid to me.

Why should they leave content that we ALREADY had in post of other content? This type of "make everyone happy" tactics even when you don't have the resources only makes the community much more divided and they blame each other that we are losing content. The game should ALWAYS aim to preserve what it has while it aspires to have more things but of course the community of this game has become accustomed to having to leave "x" content to have something different creating fights in the community .

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I think this brings up a very god point tbh. There's been this notion given that we need to sacrifice a piece of content for something else when... usually whats being asked isnt even that much. Again, that falls on the dev side of things with 14 not getting the funding it should be but believe it or not there's people who believe 14 gets a ton of money and it all totally goes towards the game...yeah right. In reality though, at least with a lot of things ive seen the community ask for, it really shouldnt be that farfetched for it to be added without being at the expense of some other form of content. I think thats why ShB just feels really bad content wise. Theres been a shift in how much has been sacrificed for other pieces of content that it just feels muddled and wrong. Especially if you compare it to Stormblood which added a good variety of things(big things mind you like the world visiting,diving,and a whole housing ward).

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think this brings up a very god point tbh. There's been this notion given that we need to sacrifice a piece of content for something else when... usually whats being asked isnt even that much. Again, that falls on the dev side of things with 14 not getting the funding it should be but believe it or not there's people who believe 14 gets a ton of money and it all totally goes towards the game...yeah right.

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This is only going to get worse, in my opinion, because of their recent financial blunders. It has been a couple years, but they lost a LOT of money from FF XV. Avengers hit them particularly hard as well, both financially and their reputation. I'm guessing KH 3 wasn't that big of a hit either. Out of all the games they have put out recently, the FF7 remake was probably their biggest success. Nier Replicant probably did pretty well though, so there's that. FF XIV has been going strong all this time, but...it is clearly used to fund their other projects way more often than the game itself. When they have to rely solely on Mogstation sales just to move some servers or possibly other things the game desperately needs there's something wrong.

The budgeting is a real concern, 14 has been a continued and increasing success, but it's only reward for this is the privilege of funding other projects. I get it, it's how businesses work, you a-lot funds across all the things you're trying to do, but 14 has long since stopped being the "hail Mary" recovery it was back during ARR, they had every right to be weary of it in ARR and perhaps even in HW, it was still riding the high of it's rise, would it burn out? But Stormblood onwards there is no excuse, 14 is here to stay, they really should invest like it is. Though from a lot of recent interviews, it dose seems Yoshi has finally gotten them to see it that way, with his desire to "keep working on it his whole life" and the "minimum 10 year" plan it dose seem he's finally gotten SE to see 14 as the stable bedrock worth investing in, unfortunately it likely won't be until 7.0 we start seeing any fruits of this.

Oh boy, they might get two chicken wings and a side of fries as a budget for 7.0! Moving on up in the world!

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

because ARR is God's gift to Earth.

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Better have come with gift receipts in that case.

One thing that does bother me about players who come to FF14 from another MMO (not just WoW) is when they come here basically expecting another version of the game they just came from. Maybe they think the other game sucks now, maybe they hate the company who runs the other game, maybe they're just bored of the other game. But they come to 14 and do nothing but talk about how great the other game is/was, all of the features that 14 should have that the other game has, all of the mechanics that are better in the other game, etc. In those cases I really do that that "just go back and play the other game then" is a completely appropriate response. If you're going to play 14 because you think it looks cool, or sounds cool, or you just want something new, then fine. But if you're just looking at FF14 and expecting it to be a better version of the game you just left, then you should probably just stay playing that other game. FF14 is FF14, and has been trending towards where it is now for the past 10 years (warts and all). It's far from perfect but it is what it is, and it's not going to become WoW 2.0 or ESO Next or GW3 or whatever you want it to be just because you show up and start playing it.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

One thing that does bother me about players who come to FF14 from another MMO (not just WoW) is when they come here basically expecting another version of the game they just came from. Maybe they think the other game sucks now, maybe they hate the company who runs the other game, maybe they're just bored of the other game. But they come to 14 and do nothing but talk about how great the other game is/was, all of the features that 14 should have that the other game has, all of the mechanics that are better in the other game, etc. In those cases I really do that that "just go back and play the other game then" is a completely appropriate response. If you're going to play 14 because you think it looks cool, or sounds cool, or you just want something new, then fine. But if you're just looking at FF14 and expecting it to be a better version of the game you just left, then you should probably just stay playing that other game. FF14 is FF14, and has been trending towards where it is now for the past 10 years (warts and all). It's far from perfect but it is what it is, and it's not going to become WoW 2.0 or ESO Next or GW3 or whatever you want it to be just because you show up and start playing it.

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I see nothing wrong with wanting borrowed ideas from other games, like a better glamour or housing system as a couple examples. MMOs have been doing it to each other since the genre was born. To me the bigger issue is those who are so dang resistant to change, especially if another MMO did something better, even if keeping what we have is detrimental to the game's overall design.