The skill progression is atrocious

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

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The new player has more chances to leave because they have 3 buttons to press for 30-40 levels and extremely dull gear design for the first 50 levels.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

The new player has more chances to leave because they have 3 buttons to press for 30-40 levels and extremely dull gear design for the first 50 levels.

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Thank you for your opinion. I don't agree. Leveling in ALL MMOS is slower in the beginning than when you reach cap. Gear design is intentionally less gaudy specifically because it IS lower level gear. Take your trolling elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Thank you for your opinion. I don't agree. Leveling in ALL MMOS is slower in the beginning than when you reach cap. Gear design is intentionally less gaudy specifically because it IS lower level gear. Take your trolling elsewhere.

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TESO, GW2, BNS, BDO have interesting skillset at low levels as well as high levels and armor design.
Now I know you will say "but they are nontarget with horizontal progression games"
So I looked at monks abilities (first class to come to mind) from wow (and BfA patch mind you). They have half(!) of their kit by level 30(!!) out of 120(!!!). Mayhaps I overlooked something, as by no means I'm a WoW expert nor I played it for more than 5 hours, but that's 14-15 skills.
And what does dragoon has at level 30? 8 skills plus 4 role actions which, quite frankly, you barely use at this level range.

As for gear design, I'm well aware that they didn't have time at all granted they remade the game from scratch, but still, it's sad that the only looking good set that is within the reach for a new player is one you get from completing battle tutorials when you get to LimLom (I forgot the name)

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Originally Posted by Endariel

As for gear design, I'm well aware that they didn't have time at all granted they remade the game from scratch, but still, it's sad that the only looking good set that is within the reach for a new player is one you get from completing battle tutorials when you get to LimLom (I forgot the name)

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That's the point. Low level gear is supposed to look bad. Anticipation isn't a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

That's the point. Low level gear is supposed to look bad. Anticipation isn't a bad thing.

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So new players aren't allowed to have fun and are destined to suffer via the atrocious slog for more than half of the game?

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Originally Posted by Endariel

So new players aren't allowed to have fun and are destined to suffer via the atrocious slog for more than half of the game?

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It's not atrocious. And once you know the game better you can glamour. You complaint is a non-issue.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Which can then overwhelm the new, inexperienced player that's been given too much to learn at once if those new skills are introduced too rapidly compared to the pace of character progression. Those new players then get frustrated and quit because they feel the game is too complex/difficult to learn.

Game developers can't afford to assume every player is a veteran gamer able to figure out how to use large number of abilities quickly and easily because the truth is most aren't. There are people who have been playing online games for years that can still struggle to understand what they're supposed to do. Skills needed to be gradually introduced over time instead of being front-loaded. Or they need to be so limited in number overall that dragging out introduction makes no sense.

It is good for the "job-changing" skills to come late because getting those skills helps to emphasize the character has truly become more powerful over time. I'm not going to feel that my character more powerful at 80 than I do at 50 if my job effectively plays the same at both levels. I'm going to feel like it's the higher level gear that's powerful, not my character. Might as well just cut off the level cap at 50 in that case - your character is done. It can't learn more. It can only get more gear.

Character development is far more interesting (at least to me) than having to pick up a new set of gear every 5-10 levels to get more powerful while my character stagnates.

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It can, but I would not suggest to front load the whole skillset. As it is now its borderline insulting with how few skills some jobs get to use at the first half of the game. Smooth out the curve instead of having a chunk added between lvl 50-60. Add more skills during the easier part of the game. I'm still not suggesting that all skills should be learned by lvl 50.

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Originally Posted by linayar

You contrasted them in response to Jojoya saying our characters "gradually get stronger," but the contrast does not disprove that statement.

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If I don't see the progression as gradual, it does. But going what's previously discussed I guess that depends on how you view a gradual progression.

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Originally Posted by linayar

The dungeons are not harder relative to your abilities.

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Uh yes they are? Otherwise you would be able to go through Amarout just as easy as Haukke Manor while only using abilities from around lvl 28. A lvl 71 dungeon would be balanced around both the stats characters are expected to have and the abilities you have at that point.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Accepting how the core of the game works, that your character progresses throughout the leveling process, is not saying don't critique the game.

But it is fair to say that, if you don't like how the game works, you can leave it to others and play another game that works in a way that you would enjoy better.

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Saying "accept how things are or play something else" is telling you to not leave critique. I don't dislike the game, if I did I would not be here. I like how most of it works but simply think that parts of it can be improved.

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Originally Posted by Lumberfoot

Uh yes they are? Otherwise you would be able to go through Amarout just as easy as Haukke Manor while only using abilities from around lvl 28. A lvl 71 dungeon would be balanced around both the stats characters are expected to have and the abilities you have at that point.

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That's why I said relative to your abilities.

And I have a much easier time on higher level dungeons than on lower level dungeons because my own stats and abilities more than compensate for the increased stats of the enemies.

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Saying "accept how things are or play something else" is telling you to not leave critique. I don't dislike the game, if I did I would not be here. I like how most of it works but simply think that parts of it can be improved.

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I'm talking about a specific feature, here. I'm not saying you can't leave any critique about the game at all.

And yes, many parts of the game can be improved, but the specific part that we're talking about is you not liking the character progression in this game, something that is core to how this game works. It affects the entirety of how contents are scaled for all characters of the game.

I consider that a core part of the game, something that I like about the game, and you want to change it and make it like other games that exist that you can play instead and enjoy their leveling experience if that's what you want.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

The new player has more chances to leave because they have 3 buttons to press for 30-40 levels and extremely dull gear design for the first 50 levels.

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40 levels is not half the game. It's maybe a fifth or less.

The gear at low levels is great. Much of it is very intricate if you actually look at it. Just because you don't like doesn't mean it's bad. You just have more to choose from as you get higher like any other game. You can't actually expect to have all the gear from the beginning. You'd have nothing to gain and no reason to continue playing. If you really don't like your selection you can buy something from the shop, but by the time you hit 50 or 60 you'll have so many options you won't know what to do with it all.