Red Mage: I am not a Back line class

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Originally Posted by Bled

I don't understand how fencer makes it so there can be no casting options, especially with the current armory system.

As i see it the fencer class will give the melee where the job will pry give haste, regen, en-spells, and other RDM staples. To add on top of that all they need to do is adjust the base stats for cross class spells to make a customize your own RDM type set up.

RDM could either be the best thing to happen to FFXIV or the worse abomination, imo of course.

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I never said rdm wouldn't be a melee caster. it will be. I'm just saying a lot of people are not taken in to
account that it's a classic job that people assume it will be added as a class. It's not going to be added
as a class. there is no doubt that rdm with be added and it will be added as fencer will be it's class it's born
from.

the spells and abiltys that people are coming up with are unrealistic to the format this game has taken. SE is
not going to your overhaul the whole battle system again to come up with this style of RDM. I just don't want to
see all the QQ over having a RDM people didn't expect.

You get 15 class abilities 5 job and 5 cross class. I like the idea of bring back some of the removed thm spells

no order implied. Fencer

1 dia
2 bio
3 banish (As a WS with an HP requirement, combos with Dia , combo Effect steals HP based on dmg)
4 scrouge (As a WS with an MP Requirement, Combos with Bio, Combo Effect steals MP based on dmg)
5 Sacrifice
6 Paralyze
7 Silence
8 Slow
9 Sacrament (makes next enfeebling effect Aoe)
10 quick strike (basic ws)
11 quick reflex (parries next attack)
12 wasp sting ( piercing strike after parry, induces poison)
13 Dual Slash (two-fold ws, combo quick strike, Condition from the side. effect gravity. )
14 Stab (ws Combo Quick strike, Condition from the side.)
15 Upswing Stab (WS Combo Stab From the rear, effect imperial)

RDM:

Enchantment: Imbed your blade with Magical enchantment, Astral dmg by day, Umberal by night.
Warlocks ward. Aoe ability, Protect your party from enfeebling effects
Dispel (Removes Mob Enhancement)
Hexa Blade (Ws Five-fold attack, Combo Dual Slash, Lowers defense to Enfeebling Magic )
Barrier: Renders all party members in AOE Immune to all Magical attacks. 15 minute ability

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Why are people trying to make RDM into what 11 had, RDM should not get refresh nor should they be an enfeeblist.

I agree that summoner should not have any healing magic, give them cross class skills of a THM but not CNJ.

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We are lacking a PURE Enfeebler. I believe rdm will only cross class with gla and thm thus the way I made the build type
I did.

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Originally Posted by Klive

I'm not saying the Red Mage shouldn't be an enfeebler mage/melee, I'm saying FF14 probably isn't going to copy FFXI.Our BLM and WHM copy more from FFIII than anything else; hence WHM having stone and wind magic. I would guess they are more likely to use that as a template over FFXI Red Mage.

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Irony of this is FFXI was designed as "what they always wanted to do with FFIII but never could" so it's essentially another version of FFIII and the WHM "with stone and wind magic" for example was later turned into SCH, which the DS version had, but not original.

So it wouldn't be an exact copy, but RDM is no longer the weak blm/whm with a sword it used to be, it's a lot more versatile now, to the point it can outlive pretty much every job in the game (XI), so they have yet another style to build from.

Which was the point of even mentioning their last MMO.

I'm seeing quite a bit of overlap with the builds posted here, which is a good thing. It means we all have something in common in what we want to see from Red Mage in XIV. One point of contention I noticed is the difference between people wanting RDM to be either a dedicated enfeebler or a generalist mage, so we should discuss that further.

Personally I prefer the dedicated enfeebler for several reasons:

First, the game presently does not have any dedicated enfeebler and RDM could potentially fill that role.

Second, it seems to me that the current class/job mechanics lean toward a system where none of the abilities or spells are copied exactly between one class/job and another. Making RDM a generalist mage would practically require that this trend would have to be broken to accommodate it.

Third and most importantly, being a generalist mage in XI is exactly what got RDM shafted in party roles. Hell RDM didn't even originally have the Refresh spell, which had to be added to even give RDM any kind of position in a party at all, and which ended up being it's only role for a large part of the game. So basically I fear a repetition of this in XIV if we attempt to recreate a generalist type of Red Mage. A debuffing specialist would be less likely to be forced out of the role it was designed to fill. Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea of RDM as a versatile generalist mage, but it runs the risk of being forced into a specific role that it was not designed for and all that versatility just goes to waste and the job becomes very unpleasant to play.

^ They already implied that arcanist would be the enfeebler.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

^ They already implied that arcanist would be the enfeebler.

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They also implied it would be trap style, not necessarily magic. We have LNC/DRG/MRD/WAR/PGL/MNK that does melee style damage, where was it written there can only be 1 style of enfeeblist?

I like magey RDM, but tanking on RDM was a blast as well.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

They also implied it would be trap style, not necessarily magic. We have LNC/DRG/MRD/WAR/PGL/MNK that does melee style damage, where was it written there can only be 1 style of enfeeblist?

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Check your shoe ?

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Originally Posted by Eremor

Third and most importantly, being a generalist mage in XI is exactly what got RDM shafted in party roles. Hell RDM didn't even originally have the Refresh spell, which had to be added to even give RDM any kind of position in a party at all, and which ended up being it's only role for a large part of the game. So basically I fear a repetition of this in XIV if we attempt to recreate a generalist type of Red Mage. A debuffing specialist would be less likely to be forced out of the role it was designed to fill. Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea of RDM as a versatile generalist mage, but it runs the risk of being forced into a specific role that it was not designed for and all that versatility just goes to waste and the job becomes very unpleasant to play.

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Agreed, fortunately FFXIV's game mechanics will likely prevent what happened in FFXI from happening here, if it's designed around the fact that Fencer / RDM can't have everything like in previous games. Considering jobs like WHM and BLM don't have everything either, it's almost guaranteed we won't see a hodgepodge of every elemental enspell, gain-stat, or nukes taking up every slot in the action bar especially when you throw in a few combos for the melee side.

If you look at the patch notes for 1.20 at the different jobs level progression / abilities gained, you can actually see SE followed a specific pattern for all the jobs when they rebuilt them, so I wouldn't expect Fencer / RDM to diverge from it.

BTW: SE already pointed out RDM would be an enfeebler / melee class in the 3rd players pool, doesn't mean it still won't borrow from white and black magic with melee on the side however. Thought I'd bring that up sense alot of people have been kinda torn about it.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

For a melee to use WS > WS > Spell requires a lot of standing in one place.

Unless you make it WS > Spell (combo effect is no cast time)

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HE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

Combo Effect: Removes Casting time.

I think they should make the spells in combos more generic too. So instead of dooing WS > WS > Paralyze you can do WS > WS > Any Enfeeble.