Problems letting go of XI? Japanese too.

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

I'm sure 2.0 will see new players but there is one thing that concerns me. All the updates we're getting are supposed to be huge but I don't see anybody returning, in fact it seems to me like the numbers are still going down.

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Because SE hasn't advertised the game since, well, ever. They had that Japan-only live action trailer and Yoshida's 2.0 announcement media tour but to bring in players advertising needs to be persistent.

I know all about Rifts patches and I've never even bothered with even the free trial of the game. How do I know about it? Rift has a persistent marketing campaign for each and every content patch.

Even Blizzard still advertises the crap out of WoW. My Grandmother knew what WoW was and she didn't even know how to turn on a computer.

SE isn't advertising 1.x and rightfully so, it's just a pacifier for dedicated fans. That's why Yoshida went on a media tour to talk about 2.0, and why the E3 trailer will be 2.0 only. 1.x is dead to the general gaming community.

Most gamers don't know about any of the changes to 1.x because they aren't wishfully checking Lodestone in hopes of the patch that will bring them into the game. They've moved on and will stay away until SE puts it infront of their faces and shows them why they should spend their precious free time playing XIV instead of WoW/Rift/SW:TOR/Aoin/Tera/GW2/Blade & Soul/DC Universe/Dust 514 so on and so forth.

Not to mention a lot has changed since 2002. MMOs aren't the only way to play with friends anymore.

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

They also aren't future proofing content, if other things had been patched to be kept relevant we'd have a lot of end game. However the way they're doing it now every patch nerfs all the new stuff from the last patch so we only have 2 things to do. I found that it wasn't that 1.0 wasn't a fun game, it was the bad UI and lack of content.

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They're not "future proofing" it because in about nine months it's all getting deleted.

We have a few months to gather Darklight gear, then a few months to farm Garuda weapons(1.22), then a few months to witness the Seventh Umbral Era events (1.23) that will change the face of Eorzea. Then it's 2.0 time.

1.x is only to keep us busy till 2.0. They said even the primal battles will be different in 2.0.

They won't advertise this game much till 2.0 when they fix the bad UI and the interface lag and the struggling engine and crippled servers.

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

And I agree, you can't blame Tanaka. Tanaka is a brilliant game designer but when you're given strict rules you have to follow how can you put your full creativeness into a project? SE also makes a big mistake when they get the "Next-Gen" concept in mind. Next-Gen graphics, sure but when you change gameplay too much your fan base isn't going to like it.

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You put your full creativeness into a project by being a professional and doing your job. I have no dobt Tanaka's original vision could have been an awesome game. And he did have the rug pulled out from under him. But that said, 2002 gameplay won't sell a game today. XIV needed to be something fresh and still does.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Because SE hasn't advertised the game since, well, ever. They had that Japan-only live action trailer and Yoshida's 2.0 announcement media tour but to bring in players advertising needs to be persistent.

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To be fair... SE doesn't really advertise anything in NA....
I saw the Leona Lewis "My hands" commercial a few times for XIII and thats its... I've never seen SE on TV other than that

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Originally Posted by Xoo

I'll say it. I want FFXI-2

I've played both games and, in my book, FFXI was miles better before the watering down.

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R.I.P FFXI 3/22/10

The idea that 2002 gameplay won't sell is dumb. Like I said with dragon quest, it was the same as it's predecessors and set records. Shooter games are the same they were 10 years ago and they're the most popular games right now. GTA IV was the same basic game as it's predecessors but not even as good as them but it still sold a ridiculous amount. That pac man remake sold big. Mario kart was one of the top selling wii games.

You could go on forever, the idea that old games won't sell is stupid.

Deleting content from the old team I can see. But they're making their own "new" content outdated.

If you think advertising will make WoW's western audience play an anime game you're mistaken. One thing people don't seem to realize is it was socially acceptable to play WoW for a long time, I don't think advertising can make people accept this game. I wish people weren't so narrow minded but they are.

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

The idea that 2002 gameplay won't sell is dumb. Like I said with dragon quest, it was the same as it's predecessors and set records. Shooter games are the same they were 10 years ago and they're the most popular games right now. GTA IV was the same basic game as it's predecessors but not even as good as them but it still sold a ridiculous amount. That pac man remake sold big. Mario kart was one of the top selling wii games.

You could go on forever, the idea that old games won't sell is stupid.

Deleting content from the old team I can see. But they're making their own "new" content outdated.

If you think advertising will make WoW's western audience play an anime game you're mistaken. One thing people don't seem to realize is it was socially acceptable to play WoW for a long time, I don't think advertising can make people accept this game. I wish people weren't so narrow minded but they are.

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Its true... redoing the same gameplay mechanics works for many MANY games...
but SE has always tried to make each Final Fantasy title different... and have pretty much always been met with success.
So since changing mechanics has worked... and not changing mechanics has also worked in the past, I don't really see a reason to debate it... they are 2 methods that have both seen success and failures
So saying this game failed because it was different is untrue...
But saying this game has to be completely and absolutely contrary to FFXI to be successful is just as false
At some point... both sides are going to need to come together

And let's be real... it has NEVER been socially acceptable to play WoW

People who thought WoW was cool are the people who thought Facebook was cool.... Yep, my grandma is on facebook, and on wow too..... I'm happy that so many people can enjoy it, but i never have and never would call either one cool. That said, i do think WoW is more socially acceptable than any other, just because anyone (from infant to elderly) could play and master it. Blahblahblah Casual vs. Hardcore which, no matter what anyone says, i will always view as only a TIME DEBATE. Casual doesn't have to mean simplify crap to infantile levels, it could just mean don't make it take 5 hours when it could take 1 or 2 and be done by all your players who face time restraints (casual players) as well as the players like me who can dump 5-8 hours a day into the game (hardcore players).

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

The idea that 2002 gameplay won't sell is dumb. Like I said with dragon quest, it was the same as it's predecessors and set records. Shooter games are the same they were 10 years ago and they're the most popular games right now. GTA IV was the same basic game as it's predecessors but not even as good as them but it still sold a ridiculous amount. That pac man remake sold big. Mario kart was one of the top selling wii games.

You could go on forever, the idea that old games won't sell is stupid.

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I'm pretty sure Modern Warfare 3 and Battlefield 3 are nothing like Doom. Yeah, they're all shooters and at their core are about using a gun from a first person perspective to kill things.

And yeah, if an HD remake of Doom was released it might sell like hot cakes. But a modern warfare skin on Doom gameplay would flop hard.

Even GTA IV was a vastly different game compared to GTA III. Hell, the first two GTA games were a top-down perspective. But what you're saying is they should never have changed that because there may have been fans who were passionate about that style of gameplay.

GTA IV was also the debut of multiplayer, something that was a pipe dream for players of the series till then.

And as for the Dragon Quest example, it would seem SE is taking a lesson from that series' success while approaching XIV.

From the Dragon Quest series wiki:

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According to Satoru Iwata, president of Nintendo, Dragon Quest's widespread appeal is that it is "made so that anyone can play it...and anyone can enjoy it depending on their different levels and interests." According to him, Dragon Quest is designed for anyone to pick up without needing to read the manual in order to understand it. Ryutaro Ichimura, producer at Square Enix, who has played the game since he was a child, says the Dragon Quest storylines allow players to experience a moving sense of achievement where they take the role of a hero saving the world.[106] Horii believes the ability to appeal to larger audiences of casual gamers, while not alienating the more hardcore gamers, is due to being able to lower the initial hurdle without making it too easy. Iwata and Ichimura believe it is because the games are created in a way that allows both groups to pursue their own goals; casual gamers can enjoy the storyline and battles, but for those who want more there is still content for them to pursue.[103]

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What a shocking concept of how to make a game successful. Make it friendly to casual gamers.

Hopefully the rest of the gaming industry doesn't stumble in this little nugget of top secret wisdom.

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

Deleting content from the old team I can see. But they're making their own "new" content outdated.

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Because its only going to be in the game till 2.0. 1.x content is just SE giving us a means to get some items that players in 2.0 won't be able to get. That's all.

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

If you think advertising will make WoW's western audience play an anime game you're mistaken. One thing people don't seem to realize is it was socially acceptable to play WoW for a long time, I don't think advertising can make people accept this game. I wish people weren't so narrow minded but they are.

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Not advertising your game gets you no players. Especially when it's a game that is two years old and had a disgraceful launch.

If 2.0 is done correctly, it will be what makes people accept the game. But if there isn't a major marketing push shoving 2.0 in people's faces, then the designing of it will have been for naught.

On the Japanese side... all 2.0 needs to succeed is a great Famitsu score....
And I think we all know thats in the bag (wink*wink)

A famitsu score of 36 or higher (out of 40) will mean close to 1 mill Japanese purchases...
Now how many of those will sub after the first month... Not even Yoshi knows that

I would have been completely happy with a XI-2(same or new world, different era/story) but now that XIV is taking a life of its own I would rather just some good stuff from XI be brought over like conquest of zones, garrison, ballista, Nyzul/Salvage/Dyna/Limbus something thats entertaining to do.

I Do miss the feeling I got playing XI and I still play it cause its still there but I want that same feeling from XIV one day.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

I would have been completely happy with a XI-2(same or new world, different era/story) but now that XIV is taking a life of its own I would rather just some good stuff from XI be brought over like conquest of zones, garrison, ballista, Nyzul/Salvage/Dyna/Limbus something thats entertaining to do.

I Do miss the feeling I got playing XI and I still play it cause its still there but I want that same feeling from XIV one day.

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Thats something we can all agree on...

take this with a grain of salt because I didn't play FFXI... but from what I've seen, the best thing XI did was make it so all the content wasn't the same....
It was so diverse... NM, BCNM, HNM, ZNM, Dynamis, Sea, Sky, Nyzul, Salvage... So not just a lot (More NMs than any one person could sit down and name) but it was well rounded
Tons of long term stuff to do but also some right now content.....

Its all a big misunderstanding though.... I think many people that want some FFXI features would want something like Dynamis (Just an example) in this game... It obviously wouldn't be called dynamis... and wouldn't be exactly the same... but something heavily inspired by it.... or Nyzul... or BCNMs...

As someone who just wants this game to be great... Id love that.. and I can admit that even if I didn't play XI