"Red Mage is a learning and progression job that's not meant to farm or clear raids" is a meme people came up with to justify the class being terribly weak and in fact, has no basis in the game's actual systems, Red Mage is classed as a regular magical ranged DPS, not a Limited Job, and "progression-only job" doesn't exist for any other role no matter how easy or difficult a class might be.
"RDM is a jack of all trades so it should do awful damage" is also a meme. RDM is a DPS. Its purpose is to do DPS. RDM can't remotely replace a healer, so it should be balanced as a DPS.
Why is RDM invisible right now? Where is the outrage?
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09-21-2019, 02:59 AMRadicalPesto
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09-21-2019, 04:28 AMSequoraI’ve been saying I don’t know why people seem to think it’s ok for one role to have “progression jobs”. RDM was known for being the caster job you play to learn a fight, and then switch to SMN or BLM in SB. This has gotten exponentially worse in ShB. RDM and SMN have these heavy raise taxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalPesto
No other role deals with this. The raise tax needs to be looked at. Give RDM more damage utility. Boost SMN potency. Give them the ranged treatment. BLM is pure DPS, SMN is damage with some utility, and then RDM is damage with high DPS utility. -
09-21-2019, 04:53 AMKatie_KittyThere are so many different ways they could fix the balance, but my personal preference would be something like this: Give RDM actual healing tools so that they are capable of slotting in in place of one of the healers. Let's be honest, in everything but savage content, RDM's damage ability is perfectly fine for what is needed. It is in the high end content where it falls short simply because its competition is so much better. Similarly, you don't *really* need two dedicated healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sequora
Imagine if, instead, skilled Red Mages were taking a sort of "off-healer+DPS" role in raids with a strong "main" healer like a white mage by its side, while still doing the kind of DPS-like damage it currently does. Imagine RDMs popping medicas or aspected helios type skills with dualcast or using an oGCD big cure in between damage casts. Imagine replacing the 5-6k damage from a 2nd healer with a RDM who performs adequately enough to replace their heals while also dishing out 12k, maybe down to 11k rDPS depending on fight and skill level. Maybe that would make RDM too powerful, I dunno, but I sure think it would be fun. And I think that would make it a really true Red Mage as well. -
09-21-2019, 05:03 AMShurrikhanYou don't even have to strip RDM of Verraise to have it not be balanced around a permanent Raise tax. You just need to put it under on-use tax, such as by having it cost some amount of Black/White Mana. There, your dps is slightly reduced every time you use Verraise, and otherwise not at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
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09-21-2019, 05:05 AMKabooaThere's been a lot of bad ideas being thrown out, but this one probably takes the cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
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09-21-2019, 05:17 AMKatie_KittyThere's no reason why you should think this is a bad idea. Frankly, you shouldn't need two healers in a party with a Red Mage. That honestly doesn't even make sense. How can you be a Red Mage if your white magic is so bad you still need two dedicated healers around you? It boggles my mind that you can even call that a red mage at all. That's not a red mage, it's a weak black mage with a bag of potions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabooa
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09-21-2019, 05:34 AMKabooaAll this hell over class balance is being made over the possibility of having 2k more DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
Your suggestion literally is 6k more total DPS to the team at the expense of -healers-.
In an expansion where healing satisfaction has hit an all time low.
I shouldn't need to explain this. -
09-21-2019, 05:37 AMKatie_KittyMaybe those healers should "just play Red Mage bro lol".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabooa
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09-21-2019, 08:37 AMSaberMaxwellTo be fair, there is already the opportunity cost for mana (11 mana by default is the opportunity cost) as well as the opportunity cost for potency output, 310 potency flat (+10 potency for a 50% chance to proc an ability that does 20 more potency than Jolt 2). The question then becomes "What should a verraise cost?" I don't know, personally, I don't know what cost would assuage the tax that's placed on us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
Red Mage's damage would need to be dropped significantly, to tank-level at most if not just above actual healer level. What you're suggesting would put healers in a ridiculously bad spot. In fact, the best way to implement what you're suggesting without throwing healers into complete disarray would be to make Red Mage a healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
Humorously, if people wanted a more "hybrid" style Red Mage, making it a healer would be the best way to do it since the way healers play in this game is already a hybrid of healing and damaging. Though that hinges on making it a full-fledged healer, with everything that entails. -
09-21-2019, 08:55 AMKabooaIt comes down to a few things.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell
1. Shifting burden of MP
2. Minimizing potential cost of GCDs
3. Availability outside Healer Role
Verraise in its current form does all 3. Summoner does it with 2, and with swiftcast can do all 3.
At the bare minimum, to equalize the casters, Black Mage needs 2 of those 3, and it needs it in a form that is either comparable to Summoner or unique to itself.
*looks at Mana Shift*
Or get rid of it, or make a role version and heavily reduce its frequency.